Canon R5C, C70, and FCP Problems with Tyler Stalman

Note: Golden Hour transcripts have been generated with automated software and may contain errors. Timecode also isn't perfectly accurate.

00:09.55
davemaze
Hello and welcome to another episode of the Golden Hour Podcast Bot Brat bab there all right started over. Ah.

00:16.28
Tyler Stalman
Systems.

00:21.96
davemaze
Um, hello and welcome to another episode of the golden hour podcast brought to you by the polar pro studio I'm your host Dave Mays and today's guest is my good friend Tyler Stalman at Stalman on Twitter Tyler thanks for coming on man this is awesome.

00:31.81
Tyler
Um, it if yeah I'm glad too. We haven't chatted for a while. So I'm sure there's a lot to be caught up on a lot's happened.

00:42.76
davemaze
Oh yeah, you've been my my go to podcast man recently because I've been really scratching my head on what to do with this show and you're kind of one of the few people that I can talk to about it who has experience in the podcast world in our niche. But. You've remained consistent. You've been doing it for a while. How long have you been doing your your podcast.

01:24.39
Tyler
So kind of depends how you measure it because I like I basically renamed a show I was doing before I had a show called cameras or whatever and I eventually just wanted to do something more broad and turn it to the stallman podcast where I talk about you know, whatever it is I want sometimes it's movies sometimes photography. Ah, or video but the the whole thing has been going for ah eight years now between the 2 of them. So and yeah, and a bunch of stuff is continuous through it's like similar guests come back and stuff. So um, yeah, it's been a while Staman Podcast has been about half of that and and the 2 together is eight years so

01:52.54
davemaze
It's amazing.

02:03.71
Tyler
Um, but but I also I did have a podcast in like now I'm having a hard time remembering how years work but like probably like 2010 or so like right at the beginning I ran a podcast for about a year that just doesn't exist on the internet anymore because I stop paying for my hosting service. So Unfortunately that is just lost to time but I I just have to swear that I was doing it a long time ago.

02:28.39
davemaze
So I must acknowledge the fact that we both have been able to run this thing live like real pros I had my nice little audio intro you have your wide and tight shot talk about that. What what do you got going on. You got 2 cameras shot over there.

02:43.20
Tyler
Yeah, so it's ah, a little bit of a mess. Actually I was just looking at the wrong lens for it. So ah, right now I've got a twelve millimeter on my c seventy and I've got like ah I don't know something zoomed in I forget what it said at on the r five. So I can cut back and forth and unfortunately.

02:50.36
davemaze
Wow.

03:00.45
Tyler
2 don't look exactly the same because you can't output the exact same settings through hdmi unfortunately you know even though it's the same brand similar sensors. You still do end up with different looking colors. But.

03:05.31
davemaze
I Like it's so odd. I Know Yeah, we were just talking about that like here's you know you can see the ungraded here in the video but I'm gonna color grade it throughout the thing so you won't You won't notice. Um, but I don't know what I'm doing anymore. It's tough. Ah exactly.

03:20.17
Tyler
So I'm going to switch back and forth a lot to to make life hard for you I've brought Okay I'll stop I'll leave it I'll leave itll Ill I'll only switch when there's when have something dramatic to say I'll punch in.

03:29.54
davemaze
And I love it. Yes, exactly it's so epic man your set looks great. Your your setup is awesome I Love seeing it in all your videos constantly using different angles different perspectives.

03:39.84
Tyler
Cool. Thanks! Miss.

03:46.56
davemaze
Notice like oh he's in this corner this time we're over here. It's like this is kind of the the dedicated mainset but it's nice that you can kind of go anywhere in there.

03:52.50
Tyler
I. Ah yeah I waste a lot of time setting it up from scratch all the time I I mean it's been on my to do list for the last five years to set up like okay 1 permanent a roll and podcast station that just always has a mic and it always has a camera. But I always end up taking it apart and like I just need I need this light for this other project I need the camera for this and like I I just can't bring myself to do it. So I still set up something fresh every single time for some reason.

04:15.10
davemaze
Yeah, yeah.

04:23.34
davemaze
Wow, That's amazing. Yeah, when I was in the home that we were living in. We still live there but the move is kind of we're moving and it's been a mess so I had to take the sign down repaint the walls. So I'm in my dad's office right now utilizing a corner in his room. So very sexy, but it is what it is.

04:41.69
Tyler
I Mean you know I Honestly audio quality is all that really matters and you got that covered. So.

04:42.83
davemaze
Um, so first oh of course I've got the roadcaster today. So um I want to start off with talking about the podcast. We already kind of mentioned your history as a podcaster. But um. I've been going through a little bit of a struggle with figuring out what to do with this show because Youtube um and podcasts don't seem to mix all that well unless you're Joe Rogan or a celebrity. Um and then doing the clips and doing all that work is like a ton of work. For a podcast that is often thrown together and that's the nature of a podcast is that it's very conversational. So I've noticed as I've been editing these clips and stuff it's it's a lot of work because I'm often cutting out a lot of chunks to then make a nice you know clip and it's like okay well maybe I could just. Take out raw clips and not edit it so much. But then it's like well at that point should I just post the whole thing I know you do live streams sometimes you do you often post your entire interview there have you just kind of removed the idea of growing a podcast Youtube channel and it's really just a place to host.

05:50.79
Tyler
Yeah.

05:58.80
davemaze
Show and you see your show more as ah, a audio first kind of thing or what are your thoughts on Youtube and podcasting because I think there's a lot of ways you can go with it having 2 channels. You know what are your thoughts.

06:10.70
Tyler
Yeah I think it's funny that you'd come to me with it because I am constantly changing my mind on it and doing different things. So obviously I haven't solved it. You know if you want a real solution talk to to h 3 or somebody that has really figured out how to crack the code.

06:19.22
davemaze
Them here.

06:24.60
davemaze
Yeah.

06:28.37
Tyler
But you know I'm always I'm in flex with it as well and to me I only really started the Youtube channel right? at the start of pandemic it was like okay I've been doing this audio for however, long I've got a little extra time in my hands. Why don't I try to make this video because I've seen other video podcasts take off. Know some people mostly use Youtube for everything. It's you know it's just their generic content platform. So if they're gonna listen to somebody speak. They wantt be able to do on Youtube and I just felt like I don't I want anything I post to be appropriate for the platform. So I don't want to post. An audio file that only has a Jpeg as a Youtube video I just you can do that. It's still functional like that I get why people do that. But I I didn't want to you know I'd like it to kind of be optimized for what it's doing so the the way I've treated it.

07:09.33
davemaze
Ah, yeah.

07:16.30
davemaze
So especially for a niche like so I was just gonna say it's especially for a niche so much of the people so many of the people you talk to so many people that I talked to own great streaming setups. Great microphones. It'd be 1 thing if it was like a different niche where people. Often don't have cinema cameras they can use as their main camera.

07:36.66
Tyler
Yeah I mean I think that's a super common problem for bigger shows that they are constantly just going on Zoom and people are using the built-in mic into their Macbook and not wearing headphones and it. Sounds terrible but this is the big show that everybody's really watching you've got like politicians doing their interview on it. Um, and it's terrible. The the good solution to that by the way if any enormous shows are listening like what you should be doing is having people use their iphone as the microphone and basically like hold it you know near here like this is. This gives you great audio if you hold ah an iphone about you know, 3 or four inches away from your face or talk to it like you're talking on the phone. It sounds great. That's ah, such a high quality microphone. It just needs to get close to you and I think this is also a lot of the reason that improved Macbook Mics are

08:19.76
davemaze
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

08:28.87
Tyler
Actually a big deal like Apple markets them as studio quality and pretends you're going to record music. That's not that's not the exciting thing about them. The exciting thing is now your Zoom calls just sound much better. Um, so yeah, but like you said the niche thing is very helpful. So most people that come on my show already have gear. And it's something that I'm often taking into consideration you I'm just looking guests like I don't want to trouble anybody that doesn't know how to set this up and that you know they're going to spend half their day just figuring it out to get it up to the level of quality I I try to aim for but um, you know I I would also take you know if there's guests that are.

08:56.66
davemaze
Yeah.

09:05.13
Tyler
Just have amazing things to say and all they can do is talk into their phone I would absolutely still be happy to have them on it just it's convenient when a lot of people already have a streaming setup. So.

09:13.43
davemaze
But what are your thoughts on the whole I'm sure I just want to know that I can be validated in this because I've been racking my brain on like should I just break it off into 2 channels and do golden hour clips and then the golden hour channel where you host the main thing i've. You know it's only been two weeks that I've been experimenting with this like clips only concept. But um, I've been getting a lot of comments from people who were relying on the channel as their source to listen to the full hour and a half long show. Also my.

09:36.37
Tyler
This is.

09:48.36
davemaze
Average view duration now has gone down dramatically because I was getting long u duration from a low number of viewers. You know a couple hundred um versus potentially thousands with the clips. So. It's almost like okay should I do the clips separate on a different channel and just. Go after a completely different audience and then you know I've basically trained the audience that I the small audience that I have on the main channel they've they're already just kind of expecting weekly hour long shows. You know I don't know if I'm overthinking all this but ah.

10:20.46
Tyler
Well 1 thing. Yeah I mean of course, of course we're overthinking it. That's that's part of the fun of it. But I the part of the way I've treated it is is using the podcast channel as a bit more of a testing ground because it's it's not my main. Focus which I guess that's part of the question maybe is like is this whether or not this is going to be your primary focus for the next in a while I know you've kind of jumped around channels a little bit or like where will your most attention like what were your most time in editing go into well you know I'm just saying like it. It depends right? so.

10:49.16
davemaze
To say it to say it lightly. Yeah, exactly to say it lightly going from.

10:57.33
Tyler
If the podcast channel is like you need this to look super professional. Be pristine all the time then you got to be a little more careful about being reliable and posting in these exact same way all the time whereas since my podcast channel is secondary like from my my other channel. Um I keep. Let it be more experimental I'm willing to just like I don't know I've also just done reaction videos on there or things that are really easy to film and post live and the expectation of production is nonexistent and so what? what? I've found from that is that the most success I found with the Youtube pod.

11:19.65
davemaze
Yeah, yeah.

11:33.14
Tyler
Cast episodes is when I really treat them the most like a Youtube video like this is basically a Youtube video there just happens to be a conversation because like the average Youtube viewer doesn't care the form it doesn't care that you think of this as a podcast because in the end they're watching a video.

11:45.43
davemaze
Yeah.

11:49.30
Tyler
They might be watching an hour long video. They might be watching a 7 minute video but like if you can keep them engaged that whole time then you you know you win. So I found that the the more um, well yeah I mean so traditionally like what I think of is a traditional podcast. There's you know, sort 2 formats of like.

11:56.30
davemaze
I yeah I mean Joe Rogans when exactly.

12:08.77
Tyler
Npr investigative journalism style where they sort of do a documentary or what you know we do what we're doing right now which is more conversational and often the topic drifts right? like we we probably won't just talk about podcast formats for this whole show and that's what's harder to to connect to a general Youtube audience because they want to.

12:25.24
davemaze
Not exactly.

12:27.13
Tyler
They probably found you by searching for a single term and they want you to stick to that topic for the whole conversation. So it can be an hour it can be 3 hours but they want you to generally talk about 1 thing unless they follow you because you're a celebrity so that's the other solution. You can go be a celebrity and then then they listen to you about anything. But.

12:39.35
davemaze
Um, well, ah first number one be a celebrity number 2 ah um, as you say all this I think it's confirming what I was thinking by the way i'm. I'm loving these switches that you're doing. Thank you for doing this It's very fun I tasteful switches. Ah I wish that there was a way by the way this is a sidebar talking about podcasts. But this reminds me I have the at mini as well or the at extreme iso.

12:56.37
Tyler
Um, I'm trying to keep them tasteful.

13:14.20
davemaze
Whatever the heck gets called and I'm using it for the C seventy I Only use one camera and I'm doing digital zooms in post of because there's 2 hosts that are sitting there and I'll have a wide and then a zoom in on her face zoom in on his face. But there's no way to select a digital zoom on the atem like you can't say on camera two zoom in to 200% and move your X and y wherever it blew my mind I just kind of assumed it would be there. It's such an obvious feature. So What I've done is I bought.

13:35.30
Tyler
Um, right.

13:42.10
Tyler
Yeah, yeah, there's not a lot of programmability. They kind of expect you to just use it the way that they designed it whereas I think some you know if you're used to ah ah, especially software based.

13:50.14
davemaze
Go ahead? yeah.

13:59.51
Tyler
Ah, switching system. You're able to really do everything but not on these more entry level. You know Consumer hardware switching systems.

14:00.53
davemaze
Yeah. I that's true I guess it is a little entry level I guess I never considered that but you can use macros to do a digital zoom. But anyways I bought an htmy splitter. So basically the 1 htmi turns into 3 inputs and I'm just going 1 2 3 and then in resolve I select all of the two angle. And then I just do my digital zoom there and then I select all my 3 angle and then do my digital zoom in final cut basically and resolve. But anyways, that's my sidebar my my 1 feature request would be the ability to do a digital zoom on each angle I feel like that's an easy ad but.

14:41.64
Tyler
Yeah I'm with you 100% that is that is very reasonable request regardless of the price of these I mean because it's still. It's still amazing to me that we now have the selection of yeah consumer, friendly switchers like I was watching this space for a long time I'd been looking at the Adam T.

14:43.79
davemaze
Anyways, that.

14:53.42
davemaze
But it's true.

15:01.45
Tyler
Atte tv switcher for for years I was like I want this I really want it but it was rack mountainunt and it was big and it was expensive and there's only like 2 options. There's that and like Roland had some options that like were meant for dejing really like nobody had realized like okay, a lot of people are streaming now and need to do switching and they don't want to.

15:11.63
davemaze
And.

15:21.50
Tyler
Become a full-on production company and until black magic Obviously now they've just run with it in a fantastic way. So but it took a long time to get it came late. This should have happened a long time ago.

15:21.57
davemaze
Yeah. And yeah, we were so it's true when we started this podcast with polar pro back three years ago the only option was the sling studio because I wanted the ability to edit it in post and you know still maintain. Edit live but then go in and kind of shift. The edit if I need to and the iso so ate didn't exist at the time. So and that thing was kind of clunky and pretty buggy I don't know if you ever use that or familiar with it. But it's kind of a weird system.

15:57.23
Tyler
No I didn't use it I just I saw it and didn't want it. So I mean this thing like there were there weren't great options before they've only got good kind of all at once. So.

16:01.87
davemaze
It yeah, it's kind of kind of strange. Yeah, but anyways back to what we were talking about and what I was going to say which is everything you were saying about the podcast kind of confirms my thoughts and my theories is that I really should just take each like. Right now we're doing the podcast segment of this interview and then we're going to go on to another topic like I should pull this whole part out I'll cut out that whole part that we just went on a tangent about the Atm leave that in the audio and then just have the Tyler Stallman shares his thoughts on podcasts and then there you go. There's a 10 minute clip

16:38.46
Tyler
Um, yeah I mean that's what I should be doing. Yeah, you know.

16:40.55
davemaze
Of that one section rather than doing chapters on Youtube so I just feel like that's more discoverable and that that works with the Youtube algorithm better right.

16:48.86
Tyler
Yeah, it tends to 1 treat your channel as well. Like you know I've looked at the way other people do this one 1 group have been following forever like I you since they um so kind of funny games which they all used to be Ig and employees.

17:03.26
davemaze
Okay.

17:04.91
Tyler
I followed then they started the ign podcasts which were like some of the first really big video game podcasts twelve years ago ten years I'm not really sure and yeah, can't remember how time works anymore and they all left their bigger company to start an independent network. So if you go check out their gaming channels. It's like it's treated.

17:12.94
davemaze
Okay.

17:24.28
Tyler
Not like the modern sort of Twitch style of game commentary. It's much more of a traditional podcast thing where they have shows and I guess I'm just like recommending it to just go like check up. Ah you'll eat game scoops the old stuff and kind of funny is what they do now independently so part of the thing that they do that I think is interesting is like.

17:31.16
davemaze
Like game scoop or like with.

17:38.22
davemaze
That.

17:43.10
Tyler
There's a very low bar to posting a video on the channel for them. It's like look. We'll post full shows. We'll post short reactions. We'll post long play with me episodes like there isn't a this is the format. It's just like you know who the hosts are you know what? the level of quality is going to be. And they're going to experiment within the space and post whatever they think people are going to want to watch and I think that is kind of appropriate a lot of the time that you know you don't need to be completely glued to like well this is a 1 hour show so I post 1 hour clips or you know so you could post full episodes and each segment separately.

18:01.99
davemaze
Yeah.

18:18.80
davemaze
Yeah.

18:19.68
Tyler
Likes I don't think that's actually crazy to have duplication of of content like that without even starting another channel because once people start Yeah, if people are into your ear if people are into it. They're going to be able. They're going to figure that out. It's not that hard to.

18:25.57
davemaze
That that's that's a that's a good question I had yeah but.

18:37.66
Tyler
Kind of navigate you just make sure that you have playlists for the full episodes. So there's some clarity about like how to find which piece of content you're looking for.

18:45.30
davemaze
I just I feel like the the standard Youtube educator would advise against it because you're having people who may subscribe for the long form who aren't there for the short form and you have people subscribing for the short form who aren't there for the long form so they skip watching those other videos that they're not there for. Which in turn tells Youtube half of your audience doesn't watch your content. You know what? I mean so I have.

19:06.67
Tyler
Um, sure I mean I think of this that what the approach I just mentioned is optimizing for the user and not for Youtube you know I think I think it's a good user experience and I don't know how Youtube really treats it if you're not like the thing is.

19:14.30
davemaze
Yeah, yeah, sure.

19:22.72
Tyler
It depends if you just like already have success which the example that I just gave you you know, kind of funny games or or Joe Rogan or you know if you look at the big or h three. It's not great to look at what they're doing because they already have the numbers. They don't need to worry about getting that extra juice from the algorithm there.

19:35.30
davemaze
Yeah.

19:40.87
Tyler
People are gonna show up no matter what? So it's not really about an optimization game for them whereas we still need to kind of play that game and I think that's actually a really common mistake for a lot of people just getting into Youtube period like let's say you're doing camera reviews and you're like well. Should I title my videos and which are the thumbnails be and so people look at Peter Mckinnon because he's had the most total views per video and they don't realize look well he can post completely generic titles and thumbnails because he already has the audience. He's already done all the legwork that people trust that. Whatever he's Goingnna do is gonna be interesting. So like I'm just going to watch it and most of us don't have that most of us need to like fight a new that that battle on every single upload that like we've always got to reestablish the interest and that's really for anybody. That's more in the mid-range so or or at lower levels like. Ah, nice thing about the way Youtube works right now is that like if you're anywhere between small to large medium. You have like an equal opportunity with every video and I found that with my podcast channel I really discovered it when I did a reaction video to the c seventy that was you know, just a. Instant edit basically I just like watched other people's videos and it was I put out like a short podcast like 10 minutes of just talking and it got 40000 views which is great and and I'd done like a real video that week that I'd put all of the usual time and editing into like it was fully produced and it got like 10000.

20:56.11
davemaze
Yeah.

21:07.53
Tyler
Ah, you know the the quick and easy one just destroyed it and and and from a much smaller channel I mean at the time I think I had 5000 subscribers on my podcast channel whereas my normal channel had 300000 and it's still that the 300000 subscribers couldn't deliver.

21:10.22
davemaze
Yeah.

21:26.49
Tyler
Even a quarter of the views that you know a tiny subscriber base does and that's the like equal opportunity that I think Youtube's been pushing for and it is it is part of the good thing of the algorithm I think content creators are often just only angry that an algorithm exists but it also really can help you.

21:29.60
davemaze
And yeah, yeah.

21:44.30
Tyler
Find your place if you don't have an established audience. It can really help you grow from nothing if you create something that works.

21:49.94
davemaze
Yeah, especially the shorts have you been playing around with shorts at all have you made any that popped off I I just argued with the podcast. Yeah I had I had a video that I made for the podcast that had twenty views and then 30 minutes later I just kind of like.

21:53.33
Tyler
I have not made one yet? No no I have you made one I know from other people's like it's a good idea. But.

22:08.58
davemaze
Looked at my analytics and it went up 2000 views in 30 minutes ah but so yeah, very strange. So the the algorithm is basically just blasting it out doing like ah those 30 people must have watched watched the whole thing or something like okay well we've sent it to.

22:14.16
Tyler
That's weird, The great.

22:24.83
Tyler
Um.

22:27.60
davemaze
50 people 30 people watched it. So now let's blast it out to 2000 and see if it takes off so it's a very interesting game and I don't know if you listen to Marquez's recent interview with I forget his name but the Tiktok guy. Well he's a youtuber but it's a great.

22:42.23
Tyler
Yeah, no, no I haven't yet.

22:45.18
davemaze
Conversation about Tiktok and they talk about that like this is the first time really that Youtube I think is a little intimidated because Tiktok is really crushing it and they continue to steal eyeballs from Youtube I think generally the the viewership of.

22:53.79
Tyler
Hundred percent

23:02.85
davemaze
Youtube has gone down because of Tiktok. It's kind of nuts. So I don't know what are your thoughts on on that form of content have you had any thoughts about getting into that space. You know Anya is probably in it right.

23:11.65
Tyler
Ah, yeah yeah yeah I mean my my wife's been doing it so I've been doing it with her so you know I've been doing it but not posting it on my own stuff so much and the the format doesn't really connect with me so this is you know this is me showing my age in a way and it's not It's not me saying that it's not great. Contents. It's it's an interesting format I see other people doing great stuff in the space I just don't I don't have great ideas for it very often. You know and it's not often that something pops my head like that'd be perfect if it was only 15 seconds long

23:38.85
davemaze
Here.

23:45.40
davemaze
Sure.

23:45.75
Tyler
Um, you know so much more often I enjoy a long conversation I just feel like there's there's more there. There's you know, even a 10 minute Youtube video was never enough to explain anything. There's always something left unsaid so compressing it into 30 seconds a minute is is challenging for me. So um.

23:56.59
davemaze
Absolutely.

24:03.14
Tyler
If you're looking for growth I mean 100% like it's ah it's a great place to be I think that it especially is helpful in like supplementing ah a more substantial channel like from when I've seen people with enormous Tiktok growth and huge followings. It's. Bit more challenging to build a business on top of only that even if the numbers are lower on Youtube there is. There's a lot more sponsorship opportunities available I mean it's just so much easier to monetize it and and part of that is that like ah you.

24:23.49
davemaze
Yes.

24:37.75
Tyler
Everything kind of has to be dedicated in a fifteen second video like it's hard to make something where it's like you know the first ten seconds are content and like and these final 5 seconds are brought to you by Squarespace like you can't you know? um so the whole thing becomes becomes the the ad which is fine but very different and so.

24:49.75
davemaze
That's a good point. So.

24:57.17
Tyler
Just kind of prefer and find it easier to work within like okay the content is pretty long and you know only like ten twenty percent of it is is the marketing message. So.

25:06.83
davemaze
You know there's there's lots of companies that you can look at and obviously hindsight it's kind of like how do they drop the ball obviously Microsoft owned the market with Skype and somehow dropped it and now Zoom has taken over I feel like that could have totally been Skype's game to to win at um. And Twitter ah owned vine and completely dropped it and I think Twitter had a great opportunity to you know grow vine and invest in it and yet they shut it down and like now Tiktok is kind of proving that vine probably could have morphed into something that looked like Tiktok and.

25:42.22
Tyler
Absolutely.

25:44.90
davemaze
It's literally taking over the world. So I've been thinking about that recently. Ah because of Marques kind of brought up that point and I think it's interesting to think like man Twitter may have been able to to do the same thing. They just didn't have the the inspiration or the the.

26:01.53
Tyler
Foresight. Yeah.

26:02.65
davemaze
Dire foresight to to do that. But it is interesting how that all panned out. So anyways, what about what about your Youtube channel. How's how's it going. How's how's the Tyler Stallman channel going again. We've mentioned anya your wife you guys work together and she is a full time.

26:14.43
Tyler
Good.

26:21.60
davemaze
You know, do you want to say influencer I I know people cringe at that word, but.

26:22.72
Tyler
We used to call she used to be called a blogger now I don't know content creator. Let's let's call it I mean influencers like it's yeah I mean influencers like the word. It's like the industry word but it's also a dirty word like it.

26:29.52
davemaze
So you guys are you guys stay very busy.

26:39.15
davemaze
Yeah, totally.

26:40.82
Tyler
I don't know I think it's it's funny. But yeah I mean yeah, that's basically what we do. So yeah, a lot of the time we're doing and then also commercial production as well. So we do the same type of stuff that we do for ourselves for the commercial clients. A big example last year is there's a ah. Company called Rocky Mountain soap that has they've had amazing growth over the last couple of years creating organic soaps and stuff and so we've been doing all of their campaigns. So that means every couple months we're shooting something pretty big and so Anya is doing all of the pre-production on that and casting all the models and dressing all the sets and like big. Basically like everything preparing it and then together we shoot it where you know I'm shooting video and she's shooting stills and then I'll do the editing afterwards and each one is a really big job and it's been cool. So we've sort of been like taking over most of the content for our company that has been a lot of work and then we also do it for a variety of other.

27:31.21
davemaze
Wow.

27:38.56
Tyler
Brands and stuff and sometimes it's pure socials. Sometimes we're creating like their actual campaigns. So it's pretty big mix of the types of production that we do. But um, yeah, it's It's been good. The.

27:47.65
davemaze
So you make you you you actually make your money. There's a lot of different things going on personally for the stallman family that Ania's making stuff you're making stuff. You've got your own channel. She's got her thing. You're working for.

27:57.73
Tyler
Yeah, absolutely yeah yeah, we've we've always tried to kept our in. We've always tried to keep our income as diverse as possible. There's you know if I think of it. There's probably like 5 or 6 different ways that we have income coming in that all count for something.

28:05.54
davemaze
Clients. It's a lot.

28:17.44
Tyler
You know they're not all big like an example is stock photography. That's you know at 1 point stock photography was my full-time thing like it was doing so incrediblyably well that I was able to just like you know, do one shoot a month and then they would keep selling and I could just relax those days are are long gone. So now it's like.

28:30.12
davemaze
While.

28:36.79
Tyler
You know we get ah a check every month from stuff that we've licensed but not enormous and I think it's harder to get to that point these days because the prices have gone down a lot. The market's been kind of flooded but it is a component that we keep going on on the side as well and then you know. There's my Youtube and her social and commercial stuff. So you know we try to keep it split up as much as possible because there have been points especially over Covid years where certain segments have dipped because things are changing the economy and we're able to lean more heavily on some other part of our business.

29:10.78
davemaze
Yeah, absolutely. But you know myself and a lot of our niche kind of see you as Tyler Stallman the Youtuber that does gear reviews and it's it's interesting. There's there's so much more. That's just the tip of the iceberg of what you actually do on a day-to-day basis. Um.

29:25.40
Tyler
I mean I don't want to oversell it because also like it's funny because I always have a bit of self-consciousness about how little I post of my um of like of like creative work right? like a lot of other like photography people are posting tons of their ah you know.

29:29.49
davemaze
Ah.

29:43.77
Tyler
They're just like artistic photography all the time like oh I took this shot and I feel like it's beautiful and for me, it's you know what we should is really like I'm saying it's commercial. It's like bars of soap in a bathroom lit well and you know so like I I kind of share that to my stories Occasionally I'm like look at this work we did. But um, it's.

29:53.99
davemaze
Yeah, ah, ah.

30:02.62
davemaze
So it's it's good content to use it works for your channel though because it's great content I was just saying It's good content for you to use as an example of like so I've been using the R five Professionally you know as you talk about it. You got all these great examples of what you've been doing with it. You know so.

30:03.23
Tyler
You know it's not. It's it's not kind of the same. So what kind of content whatser right.

30:22.62
davemaze
Um, it all kind of works together and.

30:22.96
Tyler
Yeah, and I even think of it that way as an important part of how I review cameras because some people you know Gerryald Undone is great at doing extremely technical tests where he will run it through the whole gamut of like here is where you're going to find the noise resets to better performance at a higher level and. It's hard to discover that on real shoots. So like there are the people that are giving that perspective very well. The perspective that I try to come to it through is that like you know I've used this for work I've used this in a commercial money making environment and these are the repercussions of using it in your business. Um, so I don't know that's my little bit of a niche within a niche I think so.

31:04.62
davemaze
So well I for one really enjoy your content I find that we share a very similar brain. It seems because often a lot of the kind of random hacks that you discover and the things that you share on your channel are things that I've been thinking as well. You've even referenced me and some of your videos were like yeah there's an issue that I have with this and Dave did this you know or whatever so it is interesting. How ah, we seem to be on set like the podcast I posted my news like I'm doing clips and then you were like I've been thinking the same thing and then even today I said why don't they put.

31:27.49
Tyler
Um, yeah, yeah, yeah.

31:41.50
Tyler
Um, man. Yeah absolutely I was just I was just watching some comedies and I was like where are the bloops like obviously they exist and then I googled them and there are bloopers but they didn't put them in the movie I don't know I'm just like yeah.

31:42.10
davemaze
Outtakes anymore on videos and you said I was thinking of tweeting that yesterday. So it is funny how we're almost like brothers from another mother or something like.

31:57.58
davemaze
Weird.

32:00.87
Tyler
And somebody responds somewhere somebody mentioned Jackie Chan in that I'm like yeah like that's like the best example, imagine a Jackie Chan movie without the outtakes. You know it's like it's it's better than the movie. So yeah.

32:04.73
davemaze
So yeah, Sydney you absolutely those are the best parts and then especially Pixar like I don't know what movie they stopped doing it but it was such a. It was such a thing that every Pixar movie.

32:20.14
Tyler
Right.

32:21.52
davemaze
The early days would have outtakes during the credit sequence and it was incredible. I remember all those as a kid and they stopped at some point. Yeah I don't know I don't know I only thought about it because my kids have been watching ah animations and we were watching some animation outtakes today and that's what got me thinking about it. So.

32:27.52
Tyler
It'll come back.

32:41.96
davemaze
It's fun having kids whenever you get to that point because you you start to rediscover all those old movies that you watch just a kid and I'm getting to shape their childhood the way that I want it to be. It's like here watch these movies these the movies that I watched you know, let's not watch this all this new stuff.

32:54.30
Tyler
Um, yeah, totally I mean I remember watching a lot of old black and white movies or just things being on Tv that were obviously like a few decades before my time like for some reason.

32:59.73
davemaze
You got to watch the old stuff. Although oh wow.

33:08.93
Tyler
You know the monkeys tv show was in syndication when I was young so I watched that quite a bit and the Adams family like in black and white was on tv all the time and like I watched a lot of that but that's not my generation at all that's like twenty years earlier so but I but I like it I like I like that now. Yeah that I still have some.

33:09.52
davemaze
Yeah.

33:14.82
davemaze
Of course. Ah yeah I grew up watching the 3 stooges as well.

33:27.64
Tyler
Ah, nostalgia for something that's older than my generation's nostalgia.

33:31.14
davemaze
I totally and I I don't know if you saw my tweets but I did buy a vhs player and I've been using the actual tapes that my parents gave me like so we're we're watching the old Disney tapes like even though I have Disney plus the kids love that.

33:38.20
Tyler
Oh no intent. Wow. Nice.

33:50.92
davemaze
Physical tape and putting it in the player and hitting play. They've now learned how to kind of push play. The youngest hasn't really figured it out but um, and and and the great thing about it too is when the tape's over. It's over like there's no up Next you know so.

33:58.23
Tyler
That superior analog experience.

34:05.53
Tyler
Right? Yeah, doesn't Auto play. Yeah.

34:10.26
davemaze
Was the problem with the as a parent. It's like Disney's suggesting hey do you want to watch the Spiderman after this is over I'm like no no, no and the kids like but I want to watch that you know it's awful. So anyways, um, we do have a main topic today. But before we get to it I do want to talk about final cut. Um, there's a couple of things about final cut that annoy me and I want to see if you relate number one is the waveforms like what is the deal with waveform on final cut as long as I've been using it for 11 years now I've been having like that. Basically you have to hit spacebar for the waveform to load I Zoom in to make a cut or whatever hit spacebar the video starts playing and then the waveform hasn't loaded in yet I still have to posit and the waveform loads in after that like I'm using the m one max you know this is a maxed out m one max I've got.

35:05.33
Tyler
Yeah.

35:08.00
davemaze
Blazing Fast Ssd speed and still my waveforms aren't loading in have you had this problem. Do you want to see this changed as well.

35:12.42
Tyler
Well and let's be specific. Be specific because at first I was actually confused. You're talking about audio waveforms because I was imagining visual like you know color waveforms like RtBOrLuma those are fine. It is that yeah below where you're cutting.

35:18.55
davemaze
Audio Wave forms and correct that those are fine.

35:30.41
Tyler
It has to it seems like it has to regenerate them every single time and yeah, so great example is editing a podcast. It's like you can do a lot of things visually zoomed out all the way just watching the waveforms and then you come in and then you come back out and now they're gone 100% yeah I run into that all the time I'm sure. I imagine it's one of those um like there's some legacy weirdness hiding in there the same way that you find a lot of that in Adobe is Adobe is usually worse for it than than Apple Software is where they just have some craft that they haven't prepared forever. But but that's not it's not my biggest complain.

35:49.80
davemaze
Yeah.

36:00.56
davemaze
Yeah.

36:05.77
Tyler
Have I have I have many complaints do but that one's more like it's a little bit annoying and clearly hardware isn't going to fix it like it's a software buck. It's not waiting for faster hardware.

36:10.67
davemaze
It It is yeah. Ah, what's your biggest complaint. Um I'm Curious. What's your biggest view point give me give me a water tank.

36:18.99
Tyler
I don't have one queued up I don't have like I'm so I'm sure there's something bigger than whatever I'm going to think of first. Um, you know one that comes to mind a lot of it is stuff that is present in resolve actually so I'll start with that like premiere. And don't think about it too often but resolve is really kind of redefining what I would expect so you know thankfully the color tools have gotten a lot better in final cut. They're still not the same place but you know at least you can use it for grading so I would love for those to continue catching up a bigger problem something I would use all the time though is basically an archive feature where. When I'm done editing a project. Let's say I've been shooting in eight k raw I've got like some very high quality video here and I'm just I'm done. It's it's been delivered. Whole thing is edited in resolve which they could they could do a better job to but you can say okay export this whole timeline but make sure that each individual clip. Is saved as its own video file and has handles on either side of it of 1 second or 12 frames or 5 seconds whatever you want so you can just output prores files maybe ungraded of the the full quality footage. And just put all that in 1 folder and stick that folder on a slow hard drive that you put under your bed and forget about it with final cut I mean that you I just have all these old projects sitting around that are a billion gigabytes I only need a few clips from it. But I there's no way to say like look I only need 10% of these files to hold onto forever I could throw most of it away. So I'd really appreciate an archive function like that. Um.

37:59.91
davemaze
That's a great feature I've never I didn't know that existed that is wonderful I Love that.

38:02.92
Tyler
The the way that resolve treats It isn't primarily as an archive feature. They just it's the main thing is being able to export everything on your timeline as individual clips. There's a million ways I use that all the time like I'll open resolve just to do that and export a bunch of stuff and bring it back into final cut because.

38:19.13
davemaze
Yeah I was going to suggest you could technically Xml it to resolve do that and then bring it back but that's kind of silly.

38:20.80
Tyler
It should be there. It makes a lot of sense.

38:27.85
Tyler
It it super sucks. There's there's there's ah, somebody's going to mention it. There is a software in the Mac App store that is supposed to do this and just I just found it really actually quite hard to use. So somebody's tried to to do it at this point but I struggled with it and haven't been using it.

38:39.16
davemaze
Okay.

38:45.49
Tyler
And it I just feel like it should be and and another reason is as a youtuber. It's nice to have an archive of b- rollll so it's like give me all of my iphone b-roll shots because I'm going to talk about the iphone for 10 seconds but I don't want to go shoot something new for it and that's very challenging to build up that archive so often really often.

38:45.77
davemaze
That's a great feature that.

38:50.48
davemaze
Yeah.

39:04.59
Tyler
Just go to Youtube and I download my old videos and cut out this chunk that I need and insert that and the quality's terrible like why am I doing this there there. There are better ways and I'm not doing it.

39:06.60
davemaze
Same here.

39:14.37
davemaze
So well. Thankfully I discovered downy which is in Setapp and I love that plugin if you're a mac user. You don't have to subscribe to setup to get it. It's included but you could also buy it I think for thirty bucks downy for Mac right.

39:29.21
Tyler
Yeah I did both I bought it and now I'm using it through set app I Love Downey use it all the time.

39:33.34
davemaze
Yeah, it's incredible. You can you can download up to four k which is awesome. It even can do a post processing on it to make it an mpfour. It's just a fantastic way to download and rip videos from the internet I use it constantly. But yeah, that's. Unfortunately, that's what I would do is I would often delete the project and just keep the export on a drive but then having to go find the drive and find the file was like too many steps and so I would just rip it from Youtube and call today. So not the best solution. Maybe I could start uploading.

40:01.57
Tyler
M.

40:09.67
davemaze
The raw files to Dropbox just leaving them there maybe like a ah Youtube archive folder I guess but.

40:16.40
Tyler
Um, I know a lot of people have solutions like people are doing this um, the the person that really recommended. It was Ali Abdel who was on just a video of mine I think it wasn't even when he was on the podcast. But yeah, he was like do this. Ah, hundred percent do this it will save you so much time I never did it I mean I've sort of tried I just haven't done a good job. Yeah, just building that b-roll archive I think I think it's really smart.

40:40.23
davemaze
So yeah, well hopefully somebody at Apple is listening to our archive suggestion and especially the waveform suggestion for.

40:48.46
Tyler
I I mean I think it's I probably should just do it like here's all the problems with final cut right now video because I I know I know some final cut people watch the channel occasionally. So.

40:56.39
davemaze
I was thinking of doing one. Yeah.

41:03.89
Tyler
Bringing some attention to the things that I care about maybe would bump them a little bit for it in the lineup because I don't know a lot of them. Don't feel like that big of requests. So.

41:08.50
davemaze
Well I've noticed but honestly I feel like in this day and age like a youtuber making a complaining video with many people commenting and agreeing often makes things happen. So let's do it. Let's make it happen.

41:21.63
Tyler
It's the only way to get things done.

41:27.36
davemaze
Ah, be awesome. Ah um, okay so C Ah C Seventy R Five C um two cameras that we both I've I haven't played with the r five c but I'm using the c 70 right now I've been using it as my primary tool and camera for the last. Um, year and a half now I think um I love it. It's a wonderful tool I definitely have some complaints I'm looking at the monitor right now next to it and it's kind of hanging off to the side in a not straight angle. It's literally like kind of flopping down I need to i.

41:59.50
Tyler
Ah, the monitor I can't believe that monitor. It kills me.

42:06.11
davemaze
I Need to send it in because I do have some friends that have sent it in and they said that it comes back reinforced. So I Think the first batch that we all got who were early Adopters got it as this floppy screen. But I've heard that they replace it with a new screen and it's also reinforced so they've. They've solved it on a hardware standpoint. Apparently so I just need to send it in and.

42:27.61
Tyler
Um I just I love this camera I have so much good to say about it. But I do need to take every opportunity to to shame cannon for for blowing this I mean it's the it's the first canon that's had any sort of just like really widespread physical defect. That's. Like everybody is experiencing and ah you know the example I keep thinking of is that when I pick up my canon r which is I got it I got it on sale too. So it was like less than $2000 way cheaper camera and it is still rock solid after a few years you know if you go pick up ah like a rebel x tier but like any candidates haven't had this problem. They know how to build a flip out screen. So I don't know why then the other thing that has been a common problem with it is that on the top on the cold shoe mount the screws have come loose for me quite a bit and they have set up that cold shoe to be up a place to put handles like they intentionally.

43:14.53
davemaze
So interesting.

43:22.17
Tyler
Designed it. So it's like this like there's a screw here. So this is where you're going to add a weight bearing attachment that will take all the way to the camera and I've continually had those screws just keep like gradually loosening So I mean yeah, maybe my fault for not adding some loctite to it. But okay I say.

43:28.44
davemaze
Yeah.

43:33.72
davemaze
I Really I have not had that issue but I use um I use it on an easy rig that is a primary that is literally like a primary location for me to to carry it around because I'm using it on an easy rig often. So.

43:40.86
Tyler
I Saw some other people. So.

43:50.54
davemaze
Didn't even know that was an issue I'd personally have not had that issue. So um, but the the overall the overall handling of like when you pick up the camera. It feels cheap and but my cousin who bought.

43:53.96
Tyler
Well maybe I'm just bad with my camera.

44:05.40
davemaze
This tool that we've been that I've been working with they do courses Amy and Jordan demos um I was talking to him about it. How I need to send it in and he's like what do you mean? It's a $5500 camera like he's a non cinema guy. He's a photographer and I was like yeah, it's kind of weird. It's like technically a low end. Camera from cannon and he was like mindb blown he's like a $5000 camera is considered low end. What are what are you talking about in. Um, yeah, it's an entry level cinema camera.

44:29.48
Tyler
Yeah, entry level. Yeah I mean there's still something really weird about that. Yeah I yeah if we could talk about c seventy for for a second. It's it's such a strange camera. Yeah I mean because it it really isn't a place that can and hasn't um.

44:38.82
davemaze
So please where I would love to.

44:48.68
Tyler
Hasn't done this kind of thing before like it. It is ah framed as being somewhat entry level and I think people that don't own it think of it that way but in terms of quality and output and what it's creating I mean it is It is often The best choice of camera like it. It can make sense more. Then a C five hundred in a lot of cases or a C three hundred like it really can be better positioned for so many use cases and once they add Raw which is going to be raw Lt so it'll be a little more compressed than the others can offer. But um, it's going to just be right on par with them in terms of output like.

45:25.80
davemaze
Totally.

45:26.85
Tyler
There will. There are so few compromises in terms of image quality in this camera and it really is doing something that the much more expensive Cameras can't even quite manage and with with advantages that are very real and a good example is the battery life like I don't care what your budget is. Um, if you're doing anything that is like on the go you know somewhat documentary style other than having a fall production where it's on a big dolly all day battery life does matter and you can just slap on the Bp thirty s or whatever you know,? whatever the smaller ones are and 2 of those can get me through a whole shoot which is.

45:59.28
davemaze
Yeah.

46:05.10
Tyler
It is not like that with the bigger cameras and so you're and and you're not even gaining a whole lot of image quality or potentially none. So anyway I mean yeah I think the raw thing is going to be enormous. But yeah.

46:13.47
davemaze
It's It's Fabulous. So I've heard kind of rumors and I'm just saying this from ah being a forum ah nerd and just being and involved in the forums and stuff and just kind of hearsay. But I've heard that like it really is an upgrade to the C one hundred. And way if you really think about it as a C one hundred Mark three rather than a C seventy I don't know what I think because it's got R Mount on it. It's do you disagree with that statement.

46:39.23
Tyler
Um, know I I think I think that's I think that yeah I think that's underselling it a lot I think the the c one hundred was all wait. It really was an entry level camera. You couldn't create the same work with the c through c one hundred as the more professional. Line you know like a c one hundred couldn't compete with c three hundred C five hundred or a c two hundred even c 200 could blow away the c one hundred um and all of a sudden the the entry level one is at on par like you can't tell the difference visually with the final output image.

47:06.72
davemaze
Shirt.

47:17.23
davemaze
So well it is the same sensor as the 300 mark 3 or whatever right? So which is a fabulous sensor then what.

47:18.40
Tyler
Um, so that's what's like yeah yes, the c 3 hundred Mark three yeah I mean I just love this camera I'm so excited about the like the raw thing I think is going to be huge because I was shooting on the c 200 before and it was hard for me to give up the raw like. Um, the the overall image quality is better on the c seventy than c two hundred but there there are things you get right? and you I don't think you're gonna shoot right? You're all about you. You don't even shoot logs. So maybe we can talk about that in a second. But um, the okay what? what killed me though is that it would lose.

47:47.19
davemaze
I've been shooting clog too more often.

47:54.16
Tyler
Saturation in overexposed areas and the best example was blues so you have a blowout sky and you want to like bring some of that back in post the c seventy won't recover as much as the c two hundred and it's and it is the raw format like they're both shooting in clog 2 their sensors are kind of similar. The the noise in the shadows is much better on the c Seventy zero but still the highlight color retention is much better and I think some people get it a little bit confused because they're like well there's detail retention in those highlights I it's holding on to as much or more detail but the saturation's all sucked out of it which.

48:26.34
davemaze
So.

48:28.26
Tyler
When you're looking at a sky a very common use case for needing to recover detail you may not need to see detail. You may just need the the blue to be able to pull be pulled back. So I think once we bring the raw color profile back. That's what's going to be the most exciting about it is that that dynamic range at the high end becomes.

48:41.81
davemaze
Cool.

48:46.99
Tyler
Much more useful. So yeah, it's gonna be great anyway. So wait. What if if I can critique your taste in in color profiles for a second. What what makes you generally? ah avoid c log 2 or or use it less often.

48:47.81
davemaze
Yeah, well I I.

48:56.32
davemaze
Well.

49:02.25
davemaze
Ah well 2 things number 1 this last year in particular I've been working in an industry that does not notice the difference between four k ten eighty law you know more dynamic range or not It's been these three and a half hour long courses that are coming from. Photographers who are often recording these courses using the built-in webcam on their computer. So I'm working in an industry currently with this tool that anything that has depth of field and good audio is already blowing the industry out of the water in terms of production quality. So because I'm dealing with 10 hours of content that I'm cutting down to 4 hours and my machine at the time was an m one mac mini even just like I just was literally shooting Mp 4 four k like not even 10 bit. Because I just didn't want to deal with it and yes of course the em 1 mac handles it well. But once I start stacking 5 layers with motion graphics with jpegs with all these different things. It did begin to chug and yes I know it's easy to just throw on a lut. But having to basically go clip by clip with hundreds of clips for 4 hours was so annoying. So I was like you know what screw it I'm just gonna bake it in so that I don't even have to color grade it when I'm editing so that's what I did is I I was baking it in so I don't have to ever touch it and I would sometimes adjust things. But.

50:29.65
Tyler
You know what? yeah.

50:37.80
Tyler
Um, yeah, that that is that is completely the right answer like I mean that's the reason to do it. Um, it's because of the computer processing especially because what I often hear is the argument is like I don't want to spend the extra time color grading and it's yeah again.

50:38.29
davemaze
That's why I chose to shoot Ydr and.

50:54.73
Tyler
What I really don't understand this with is in terms of c log 3 people say all the time they're like I rather shoot c log three because it's easier to grade like how are you grading like are you manually dragging the contrasts and saturation sliders every time which I assume they are because other like what you.

51:13.46
davemaze
Tell us what tell us what we should do tyler.

51:14.34
Tyler
So the thing is if you're I'm sure I and I'm sure I sound condescend I sound condescending to somebody out there that is currently shooting c log 3 but what you should be doing is finding a phone calls coming America what you should be doing is finding a quality transform which there are many of I mean there are.

51:20.56
davemaze
Ah.

51:28.40
davemaze
It's okay.

51:33.85
Tyler
Luts a lot of people sell luts and make them available and then there's also ah tools within different software. So unfortunately final cut doesn't have great internal tools. The luts built into it are not good enough I wouldn't use the built-in ones if you so if you have trouble finding a good transform. Let um. CA match is another way to do it from the people that make film convert they can match cameras between each other and also transform rex 7 oh 9 a better yet resolve has all the super powerful tools like color space transform things like that where it's like you just tell it. This is what I shot it in and it just outputs a great seven zero nine transform and you have all that flexibility to recover all the extra color data and all of the extra light data from it very important, you need to do that that those big corrections before in your chain of adjustments. It needs to be before your transform. You do it after your transform you're just adjusting a rec seven zero nine image like all the data's gone. It's been turned Contrasty. So if you're trying to fix a big white balance change or you're trying to pull your highlights way back. You have to do it before the transform but there's a ton of ways pre-built ways that take all the math into account of how to transform these properly and you should not be doing it yourself so as long as you understand that it is the same to transform clog three CLogOneCLog2 you you just do you do the same action and you just select which log profile you used. So.

52:53.17
davemaze
Yeah.

53:04.48
davemaze
And it's and it's not a lot of math or or processing you know in terms of Gpu and this and that like where you're going to see issues with your computer is the files. Are you can chunk you. But yeah, like the problem was I'm dealing with.

53:13.28
Tyler
Um, but it it it adds up in what you're doing. Yeah.

53:22.55
davemaze
Ah, reaction-based course where I you know I have a primary shot of them talking and then a screen recording of their computer and then a screen recording of the ipad and then on location footage that I shot on the easy rig with all these shots and then they'll pause it and then I'll zoom in on it and they'll reference it and they'll draw on the ipad like it was. Very complicated and it was actually a lot of fun for me to problem solve that and now I feel like I'm a master at making courses because I've done 5 of them 5 or 6 of them over the last year just now this? Yeah exactly I'm working on it. Ah i'm.

53:52.15
Tyler
Um, nice. It's good skill to have.

53:59.74
davemaze
This is February the the month we're recording this I'm now officially freelance again. So I'm I'm continuing to work with them as their primary video shooter but I'm not an employee of theirs anymore. So I'm getting back into Youtube and as a youtuber in the past I've often shot in camera as well. Especially when I was dealing with other editors I liked to just kind of bake it in so that they would just kind of take it and I'd maybe look at it and be like yeah it looks okay, you know and then when I was with Ken Otika the strategy was two a week two videos a week and often I would start at ten Zero a m we'd shoot. Till noon and then Connor would have it done by four o'clock we'd upload and move on to the next video so like doing an entire video in one day just removing the color grading from that really helped because it was just like it looks good in camera bake it in just ship it call today. You know.

54:45.72
Tyler
That's a lot.

54:56.31
Tyler
Um, well so in in my case I still would choose to use Lutz in that scenario because it probably isn't going to compound the cpu stress enough to be worthwhile to to me and that's.

54:57.80
davemaze
Um, so.

55:02.92
davemaze
Yeah.

55:10.88
davemaze
So sure. So.

55:13.29
Tyler
That's when it is important is like if it starts to slow down your computer which final cut does not deal with Lut's very well actually it's light and plantation is not very smart. Um, so to go back to final cut for a second. Maybe this is the thing I would change if you apply it to the clip right? like you go to the clip and you say info. Ah, transform let you like find it in the info panel and and you switch it to whatever that's the fastest way for final cut to process this and by the way this is all coming from. There's like a a white paper from the editors of what's it was red notice is that what it's called the you the Netflix show with.

55:36.65
davemaze
Or browse and hat your own.

55:46.79
davemaze
Yeah, yeah.

55:50.70
Tyler
Was edited in final cut with the rock and Ryan Reynolds they they had a big notion document describing their whole workflow and they're like you know here's here's how we're gonna do everything and one of the important things was. That's the only place to apply lut in final cut because anywhere else is going to slow it down too much and.

55:51.77
davemaze
So I didn't know I didn't realize that they did farm good. Yeah.

56:08.58
Tyler
All the grading needs to be done afterwards. So when they export it they strip all the luts out the way to get good colors out of final cut unfortunately is not that like that's the that's the fast way but to make it look good. You need to remove that lut and apply it as a effect like a lut effect and put your adjustments under it. Yes.

56:23.99
davemaze
The the custom limit effect. Yeah so.

56:28.15
Tyler
And that slows everything down So it's like that's what looks better and it kind of works better, but it ah performs worse. So anyway, um my work flow for the kind of thing you were doing would just be to to do that I'd still I'd use the custom luck because you probably don't have a ton of clips. Not a complex edit. Um.

56:29.69
davemaze
Yeah, sure what I was doing.

56:41.25
davemaze
Yeah, sure I yeah no yeah, totally of course and again we're talking about four years ago and we were shooting on 8 bit cameras as well. So take that into account Sony's

56:47.28
Tyler
And I still think you'd get a better looking image than the baked in thing.

57:00.86
davemaze
Color science was pretty terrible back then as well. So slog 3 wasn't the best when I was using that at the time I was I started on the one Dc so that camera did have canon log and that actually looked fantastic on the one Dc. Even though Canon log 1 looks pretty terrible on the c seventy and on all the modern cinema cameras canon log 1 on the original c 300 on the c one hundred and the 1 dc actually in my opinion looks pretty great if you know how to color grade it. So anyways.

57:32.45
Tyler
Um, yeah I think I think catalog one is nice. It's it's too bad. It loses some highlights but the colors are very nice.

57:38.91
davemaze
Yeah, it's too bad. They don't just include it on every camera like why don't they put it on like even the 90 d or like the lower end cameras like Sony puts slog on the rx one hundred. But. Cannon won't put canon log on every camera they make I don't understand.

57:56.30
Tyler
Well, what was weird to me I was trying to do a 3 camera setup the other day with the r five the r and the c seventy and I realized there's no one color profile that is on all of them the c seventy doesn't have C Log one it has c log 2 and 3 and not one and the and all of them are missing.

58:06.10
davemaze
And Hu I oh wow yeah, ah, ah yeah when I was ah before I was a youtuber.

58:14.34
Tyler
Um, variety set. Well there's nothing that's common to all 3 is like okay, great. But.

58:22.85
davemaze
You know I was a director in freelance dp and stuff and I actually did work on ah a documentary feature that my dad my dad's a feature film documentary filmmaker. Did you know that I don't know if you knew that. But yeah and he anyways I was just like this was.

58:32.80
Tyler
Um, yeah I saw something you posted a while ago you posted a sample of his work.

58:42.12
davemaze
Back in the c three hundred days and I was like just get all c three hundred s like 1 guy had a Sony 1 guy had a you know a Dslr one guy had a Panasonic and he was like well we could just use all these cameras shoot 4 k like nope it's it's not the same just rent all the same camera. That is the best way to go and my conversation with Oscar Alva from Jeff Woodick too that's why they're just all black magic. He's like just get all the same cameras that solves all your problems but easier said than done especially when you're a hybrid shooter like yourself. But.

59:09.56
Tyler
Totally yeah and as much as possible. The same bodies like I was just saying that you can run into unexpected issues between similar bodies I'm editing some work right now that was shot on the c seventy and c 3 hundred mark two and it led to it led to some color mismatch issues. I mean it's it's been more challenging than I expected. Yeah yeah and it was a bit of the the settings it was the ga the the gamma settings didn't match. They were both c log 2 but 1 the cc 300 was using um like a bt seven zero nine as the color color.

59:26.15
davemaze
Really oh the mark to the mark to it. Maybe the Mark three wouldn't be better. Okay.

59:44.10
davemaze
Yeah.

59:44.50
Tyler
Um, met and the the gamma was see log 2 So anyway, anybody listening this is so like in the weeds I don't know how many people understand what I'm talking about right now with clog 2 should be shot with cinema canon cinema color gamut gamma I always forget which is which because they're almost the same word. Um.

59:53.92
davemaze
It's okay I'm yeah.

59:59.45
davemaze
Yeah, have you by the way this may this may just be my own thing but have you gone back and looked at any of your like 5 D Mark 2 or 5 d mark 3 footage and been like shape and oh okay.

01:00:04.56
Tyler
Sinny gamut. That's the one.

01:00:13.92
Tyler
Yeah, it's terrible.

01:00:18.91
davemaze
I just I feel like the 5 d four in particular that four k and the 1 Dc it did have a very filmic like the dynamic range wasn't great, but it had a more film-like look whereas now I feel like some of the modern cameras are just so focused on dynamic range. It feels a little more digital I'm probably getting into very objective.

01:00:34.10
Tyler
I think I'm I Yeah I think I'm too focused on dynamic range. So it's like when I see the clipping of those older cameras I'm just like it looks like old digital. Um, so yeah, I'm just I'm so used to.

01:00:38.13
davemaze
Ah perspectives.

01:00:47.35
davemaze
Okay, but if look at some films look at film sometimes film is clipped you know and it's it's done tastefully. But anyways.

01:00:53.48
Tyler
Yeah, yeah, that's true, but it has a yeah, it has a roll off That's a little different I mean that yeah, there's 2 things both the clipping but another one I was really noticing the day just comparing the r five and the c seventy was I really don't like the the way the blacks just also kind of clip like excuse me. If they're not actually clipping the way that the blacks behave on an r five is much more like aggressively black and I mean this is more an effective c log 3 but they just like dip into uneditable much much quicker and there's just this softness to the roll off and the blacks that you can keep you can keep a gentle roll off. Of CLog2 like you can make it feel like it's gently going toward the shadows and it's just not like that in c like 3 you you got to kind of shoot some side by sides and obviously like oh they are much more different than I realized and yeah that yeah yes, that's right.

01:01:44.18
davemaze
I mean c log 2 right? It's not like that in CLog two well it remains to be seen how how much better canon raw light is and I highly anticipate your initial reaction I would assume to me that would be ah, a classic Tyler Stallman that

01:01:58.80
Tyler
Me too.

01:02:03.34
davemaze
Youtube video is your opinion and thoughts on canon raw light on the c seventy I'm excited to see and hear your thoughts everything else about it is wonderful. Um I'm not a huge fan of the crop sensor situation. But I understand they just they're repurposing the c three hundred sensor. Um.

01:02:09.60
Tyler
I'm I'm having dreams about it.

01:02:21.71
Tyler
Um, so okay I think of it I think of it different than you? Yeah, do well do you shoot RF on it primarily.

01:02:23.24
davemaze
I Wish they could give me crop sensor lenses and. No I have the turbo booster with the Ef lenses and I never take that adapter off. It's always on off.

01:02:37.34
Tyler
Yeah, yeah, same here. So so to me I Often forget that it's cropped because I I put like the permanent screws on the adapters actually like can't really take it off. So yeah.

01:02:46.96
davemaze
Same here, but a lot of people have issues with the flaring with that Adapter. There's like a purple kind of flair that happens with it that is hard to unsee once you see it. But that's maybe being a little picky but it is what it is. Ah, wish they would make some crop ah rf lenses that'd be nice.

01:03:08.63
Tyler
Yeah, yeah, canadaon needs to work on there. They they also need like an apsc good bot like a pro-ish apsc body. It's really weird to me that they haven't done this yet compared to like if you want to if you want to go all in on Sony you can get these amazing full frame bodies that like do everything you want are very.

01:03:19.10
davemaze
Yeah, yeah.

01:03:27.98
Tyler
Competitive with canon sometimes better but you can also pick up a cropped sensor to also have in your bag That's much much smaller using smaller lenses cheaper lenses or just giving you you know, less step the field which sometimes is desirable or it's you know it's offering a variety of options that you don't have with this.

01:03:47.50
davemaze
Totally.

01:03:47.36
Tyler
Full frame bodies and you can't have that world with Canon you're just like well you're either all full frame or you're buying sort of weird consumer stuff like the m series of of cameras. So I don't know it's weird.

01:03:57.49
davemaze
So yeah I don't know but Lo and behold here. We are with the r five c which if they were to announce that when the c seventy came out simultaneously I feel like. As an industry or as as a bunch of fans of of Canon and cinema cameras be a little more torn and you know if if we were given the option between the c seventy or the r five c say. Let's just theoretically say they were both offered at the exact same time. What would you have chosen. If you were able to pull the trigger on either a c seventy or an r five c.

01:04:35.91
Tyler
Yeah I mean if I had ah if I had no cameras right now you know God God Forbid My place burns down and I lose everything and I got to buy it all over again. Um I would 100% go with what I have right now I would much rather have the C seventy because i. Again, anybody this No I have the C seventy and the R five and that pair has been amazing for me if I could only get one camera I mean stills are important to me I need to be able to take good stills. So Yeah I probably would go for the R Five C if I could could only have one body.

01:05:03.98
davemaze
Yeah.

01:05:10.45
Tyler
But if video is really important to you like you primarily do video the the ways in which the C seven is a workhorse like I would absolutely I would absolutely not trade it for the R Five C That's not to say bad things about it I I like the R Five C but like the internal indies are so underrated which is weird like I.

01:05:18.75
davemaze
A hundred percent

01:05:27.39
davemaze
So I know.

01:05:30.18
Tyler
I Don't know how so many people sort of blow past them like it's missing internal and I mean it saves so much time and also to for the way I work which is I don't know maybe not as professional as others. It makes the image quality better because the adding a filter onto every lens. Let's assuming you're using a screw filter. Obviously. Can talk about the adapter filters in a sec. But if you're screwing on a filter. It is likely Dirty. You know like going in and out of your pocket or in and out of a case or just interacting with your hand is so likely to have fingerprint or dust and just extra stuff on it because you can't You also can't leave it on all the time.

01:06:02.62
davemaze
Totally.

01:06:08.70
Tyler
Um, so it needs to be moving around and having a risk of getting damaged or dirty or or whatever and also just slows down your shooting Then of course you can add. Yeah go.

01:06:15.86
davemaze
But not to mention the variable. Yeah I think you're about to say it but variable neutral density filters are the more practical solution because they're so convenient but they often give ah a color cast that is you know a mess. So.

01:06:33.35
Tyler
Yeah, yeah, it's that's visible I mean it's not like there's they they were better that there are more good options than there used to be for sure I mean but like polar pros is really strong. That's kind of my go to and yeah I mean like I don't really worry about I Just kind of use it and I'm like I'll fix it later and it's never that bad, but it's not.

01:06:53.18
davemaze
My ideal.

01:06:53.33
Tyler
As helpful as internals internals are really easy to to just flip on and off and you just don't think about the color because it handles it. So even Canon's um adapter where the you know let's say you're shooting on ef glass and you put the ef to rf adapter that has. And these built in there is also some color shift even with that some.

01:07:15.72
davemaze
Sorry I think I cut you off your mid rant about going to a mirrorless body over the C seventy was there. Another point you were going to make that I cut you off on sorry.

01:07:26.11
Tyler
Oh yeah, well I so andies andies was the first focus I mean having built in like real audio inputs is is really significant to me I mean ah this lately I've been going back and forth with the r five a little bit which which. You know for? let's say for a talking head on Youtube the image quality coming out of an r five r r five c is actually superior because it is sharper which I I think in a presentational style where it's like you just you just want clarity of image. You're not looking for cinematics. Um, both of the r five s are going to just blow it away.

01:07:49.23
davemaze
Yes.

01:08:01.61
Tyler
Is better for that. But in terms of simplicity of setup I don't want an audio interface in between and usually I'm using Xlr Mics that need a a proper preammp preammps in the R Five series are both mediocre but almost terrible. Um.

01:08:19.50
davemaze
Well, we do have a task gam Yeah exactly. Yes.

01:08:21.13
Tyler
And you you just you always need extra pieces and anytime anytime you're counting on more accessories and more other batteries like it is it becomes less and less professionally functional to me. It's like before I go to every single shoot. It's like did I charge everything do I have every connection cable in between. Yeah, you were just supposed to say that Taskcaam has a interface that you can plug into the accessory I don't know what they're calling the hadhoe now the accessory shoe and it's that's good. That's good I'm glad they're doing that and it's gonna be very useful but it's.

01:08:46.47
davemaze
So a hot shoe Accessory Mount Yeah Accessory shoe. Yeah.

01:08:58.68
Tyler
Not as good as just having xlr inputs like Xl Inputs is way different. It's much better in physical dials to adjust the audio levels and I mean just go on and on I mean dedicated buttons for zebras and peaking and multiple record buttons and just like looking at the camera. What else is.

01:09:07.55
davemaze
I totally.

01:09:17.22
Tyler
On a full-size Hdmi you know like.

01:09:17.68
davemaze
Yes, 100% I'm I'm sitting here with the camera plugged in over ac because it's got a nice Ac port in the back that I can just plug straight in I don't need a battery dongle you know a dummy battery that plugs into the wall.

01:09:33.34
Tyler
Yeah.

01:09:34.92
davemaze
Um, or the the power delivery over Usb which I think you can do now but it depends on the you you got to have the right brick you got to have the right source to give it actual power and I have a full size East Umi coming out of this thing and it's just so reliable and great. But. Then of course you have the flip side of obviously the flip screen we've already discussed is awful. Um, the autofocus is inferior compared to the eye auto tracking of the the mirrorless bodies and again just like the flip screen argument. How is it that the same manufacturer that. Shares the same engineers and shares the same technology. How is it that one of the most valuable you know things that makes canon. So great is their amazing dual pixel autofocus technology in the rseriescameras. How is it that that's not being carried over automatically to their cinema line. That's. Kind of a no-brainer. It's like 1 of their defining features as a company to like include this amazing autofocus system. So it's it's just strange.

01:10:36.78
Tyler
Um, well I actually got ah ah I got some pushback on this in my R Five C review that I was people were sort of saying I was too generous to the C seventy in terms of its auto focus have you had real problems with the C seventy where you're you're trying to do something and you just. Can't accomplish it because the autofocus is falling apart because I haven't much it usually is delivering for me.

01:10:57.20
davemaze
No, and I I I am like you I have not had many situations where it's been bad, but maybe we're a strange. Ah. Community of people who sit behind desks and don't move around very much and are in well-lit scenarios. But.

01:11:14.75
Tyler
Um, yeah, yeah, that's the thing I think the face tracking is excellent whenever there is a visible face the C seven has done great by the by the way if anybody's looking at my video on manual focus on you no and focus right now but it it will it will track the face for a roll type stuff.

01:11:26.87
davemaze
But.

01:11:32.46
Tyler
Just perfectly like I never have a problem with it. Um, better than the C two hundred by the way which would often kind of front focus towards my glasses and the C seven doesn't seem to um, but ah what it where it when it falls down is object tracking it just. Clearly does a worse job of like grabbing onto some random shape and following it around.. That's what the R five really excels at and that's the only time it matters to me so it depends what you're shooting if you're shooting a lot of like interview style talking head stuff. Ah I don't think there's a significant tradeoff there.

01:11:48.67
davemaze
True.

01:12:03.79
davemaze
Yeah, no totally and that's I think that's maybe wise because I'm always shooting a subject I'm shooting. You know my cousins and so I'm always focusing on their face or I'm behind a desk doing golden hour and I'm just staying stationary and the the face only tracking comes in handy. This scenario where I have a microphone in front of my face that often would be in focus if you're using a traditional system is only tracking my face which is wonderful and I wish all companies had a feature like that I think it's a wonderful software feature that I don't see why Sony couldn't include something like that as well. It's a.

01:12:27.62
Tyler
Um, yeah.

01:12:39.55
Tyler
I Really like it. Yeah.

01:12:40.13
davemaze
Ah, simple I would imagine a and I mean of course we're we're talking about engineering and Ui and software as if it's like ah it's easy just you know push a button but you know I think it's interesting that only the Cinema line of Cameras from Canon have this face only feature ah does the R Five C have.

01:12:59.45
Tyler
It does? Yes, yeah so the cinema mode really brings over almost everything from the c seventy except for COTwo and does a great job of all of it. so yeah so yeah I'm glad so now you need to set me up to say some night.

01:12:59.85
davemaze
That feature in the cine mode. Okay, cool.

01:13:07.25
davemaze
And a crappy flip screen. But what if you you switch over to the ah can you imagine if you switch it over to the Cinema mode and then all of a sudden The the flip screen starts.

01:13:16.46
Tyler
Set me up to say some nice things about the R Five C because I don't want to make it sound like I'm disappointed or something. But.

01:13:26.17
Tyler
Screens up I Mean at this point I wouldn't be surprised. Um, no so yeah.

01:13:26.48
davemaze
Tangling from the side. Ah, okay, yeah, so r five c you've had hands on with it. Obviously we've set all this up as c seventy users and fans you are a full through and through canon user. You've got the r 5 obviously set aside your experience with the fact that you know you want the c 70 you want the r five I would love to hear your thoughts as you know a c seventy user and a canon cinema user for so long on this new Awesome body I mean it's kind of like the ultimate hybrid that I think everybody. Wanting to see I don't think any companies really ever truly made such a ah truly hybrid camera this really is like the ultimate hybrid that even Sony hasn't really done before it's really interesting.

01:14:10.39
Tyler
Yeah, yeah.

01:14:16.37
Tyler
Yeah let's spend a second focusing but on nothing but the best features of this because I mean there's a lot of good to to say about it and I've been wondering for a while why nobody has done why nobody's really done this like this is a hundred percent hybrid it is the it can take the. As good as any other full frame camera on the market. It is completely competitive in terms of photography. It is the the top of the line I know other things want to compete but it's as good as it gets and then the video output is also as good as it gets in certain categories not in terms of dynamic range. But in terms of sharpness.

01:14:50.00
davemaze
Sure.

01:14:54.35
Tyler
And color performance. Others are also very good I'm not saying that it's way better than what Sony's doing there's things that panasonic does that are competitive in its own way. But for for what it's aiming to obviously Alexa is doing better in some ways as well. But you know.

01:15:03.47
davemaze
Yeah. Of course. Yeah, yeah.

01:15:11.38
Tyler
For for what it's doing it really is top of the line at both photo and video and that's amazing and something We just haven't had before where there are very very few compromises and I think ah a lot of people see the big compromise as the lack of ibis like that just speaking of compromises I think everybody's like well.

01:15:19.50
davemaze
And.

01:15:25.15
davemaze
Sure.

01:15:29.70
Tyler
They they ripped it out and it's you know it's some kind of canons usual like they're bringing the hammer down and and cutting out important features just to artificially differentiate the the market I don't think that's the case here at all. They've got 2 justifications for it one I think it's a little like bit of Rhett conning which is that. The stabilization on the r five is less professional for video because it is never able to fully lock off which is not a very common feature but most cameras with ibis cannot lock the sensor so that it ever stops vibrating. So even if you turn it off and you have. Ah, vibrations going on the sensor is still moving in a way. So the the best example of this pro a v did a good demo of it but is when you're mounting your camera to a car. You want the camera to be moving in the with the same vibrations as the cars so that relative to the camera. The the person inside of it is stable. Background is shaking but that doesn't matter in a car. The background can shake you want the person to be stable. But if you've got any sort of stabilization on your sensor. It is always trying to adjust to the horizon to the outdoors and it can't do a good job and that also can go for gimbals I mean a gimbal is expecting this. Censor to effectively be locked. They they obviously they can work well together. But um, you're not necessarily getting ah a big advantage of that and there's also some artifacting that comes from ibis that is not of the highest professional caliber. So the type of stabilization you get from ibis is a little more consumer friendly like. Looks really really good at first glance and it's only after taking a much closer look. You're like oh wait something weird is going on there. So from their perspective. They're targeting the pros and then the 1 other justification that I think is a bit more of the real reason is to just reduce any potential heat which of of course seems.

01:17:09.40
davemaze
Yeah.

01:17:20.20
davemaze
I I didn't even think about that. What if what if it's like a bunch of engineers sat around the table and like how the heck do we cool this thing down with the R five and like while the ibis is creating a ton of heat if we just got rid of that put a freaking fan on it then problem solved and.

01:17:21.49
Tyler
To be reasonable to me like they want this to always be cool so take away the stabilization.

01:17:31.64
Tyler
Yeah.

01:17:39.91
davemaze
You know they're using what you just said previously as the excuse but at the end of the day that may be the real reason is the heat which I didn't even consider.

01:17:46.19
Tyler
Sure? yeah, or just to bring the price down a little bit. You know keep it a hundred dollars cheap or 200 like there. There are a variety of reasons but in the end um you know it's not something that has really frustrated me on the cseventy sometimes I I wish for it absolutely when I'm just walking around I wish I could turn on a stronger image stabilization other than just the digital but the digital is shockingly good and apparently it's better on the I five c I actually didn't test it but it's it's very good. Yeah.

01:18:05.70
davemaze
Sure. So.

01:18:14.75
davemaze
It especially paired with a is lens. Yeah totally. And again, you know a lot of pros are using gimbals. They're using easy rigs they're using tripods monopods all that type of stuff but I still wouldn't I don't know I don't know if that's a good enough excuse to get rid of it because again there are. Of other cameras like the a 7 and s 3 that have really taken over that in the fx three that have it and it it works well. But I think the reasons for it. You can kind of excuse away because at the end of the day. It still is a wonderful hybrid camera and one of the things that you mentioned of course the image quality is great on both that has. You know there there have been these hybrid cameras like the 1 Dc which was one of my favorite cameras and I got it used for a great price which is a total flagship Dslr that also did video but it never had focus peaking. It never had waveforms. It didn't have any type of pro video features it just literally through canon log continuous recording.

01:19:04.74
Tyler
Right.

01:19:12.28
davemaze
And four K on it and that was it and this is really remarkable from Canon's perspective. The fact that not only do you get great image quality of video and photo both as a hybrid but we truly have when you go to the Cinema mode a true Cinema camera with Cinema menus and waveforms and peeking and. All the audio kind of you know ui that you would want to see then you switch over to photo and you're not using a confusing video menu that kind of navigating like throwing together a photo camera. It really is the full Canon Photo Ui which we've never seen that before I think.

01:19:42.60
Tyler
Um, yeah.

01:19:50.33
davemaze
I wonder if canon may have started something here with this concept that we may see with Sony or or other things. Sony's really been trying to figure out their menu system I think this new batch of cameras with the a 7 4 and the a 7 s 3 are way better than they've ever been with their menus.

01:19:57.61
Tyler
I'm sure you.

01:20:09.70
davemaze
Um, Panasonic has done a pretty good job of kind of blending these two but I love the idea of like because as a photographer and as a filmmaker when you're a hybrid shooter your mind really is focused on what you're actually doing currently like I never. Was able to fully like shoot video and then at the same time immediately take pictures. It. It has been as a hybrid shooter often. Okay, we're gonna shoot some video all right cut all right now you know, let's take some pictures and my brain is literally going from a to B It's hard to do both at the same time.

01:20:29.31
Tyler
For sure.

01:20:44.88
davemaze
Might as well give it two separate Uis So I don't know it's really cool. This really is the actual hybrid tool that everybody has been kind of dying to have because in theory you could just have this one camera and make a living doing both. It's pretty amazing. Yeah.

01:21:00.24
Tyler
Yeah, yeah, absolutely I mean I still think the best case for for the kind of work we do anyway. So for the commercial work is to have both I mean I would never prefer to be on a set where it's like oh I could get rid of one of my cameras and only use the one. It's a better workflow to me for sure to have this even if they were both. Five c's I want I would rather have this is the camera. This is the photo one and this is the video one I find it helpful to have that separation in my workflow but obviously a lot of people aren't going to buy 2 big cameras like this or like you know you only have a budget for one camera and so this really does bring it together. Very.

01:21:24.46
davemaze
Sure.

01:21:38.52
davemaze
And yeah and I mean that's that's why it's so expensive right? is they're probably not making a lot of them it. It is a niche market I mean Cameras in general professional bodies in general are declining in sales because of you know mobile photography.

01:21:38.94
Tyler
Very well.

01:21:55.10
davemaze
And consumers. So. The only people who really are using these tools are professionals. So I think you know people complaining about the fact that it is a hybrid on Twitter and stuff. It's like hey like you can still buy the r five and the c seventy and whatever tools you want I think this is. Clearly a niche product for a niche market. It kind of sucks that they kind of had to make it because the r five got so so much flak for overheating. Um, but you know at least we have options you know.

01:22:25.80
Tyler
Well so I think what's significant about this is with the r 5 overheating has just not been a big issue for me like especially using it as a b camera at least as a secondary camera. It's like that's not usually my issue bigger issue is running into record times. So if if I'm using it for live streaming I've got a. Kind of work around that or like from recording a podcast or I hate the 30 minute record limit that's more common of an issue for me than the overheat problems. But 1 thing I love about the r five c is it is always in the the best quality mode of the r five. So with the r five. You'd often be switching to you know. You have to turn it to like the h q mode to get the full pixel readout from the 8 k sensor where it is properly downs samplepled as opposed to like bining or whatever it's doing with the additional pixels when you just shoot in the default four k so the default four k on the canon r five is softer like visibly softer than the hq mode.

01:23:16.10
davemaze
Yeah, yeah.

01:23:22.92
Tyler
Um, with the r five c it doesn't have any of that softer mode. It is always at maximum quality. You sort of can't make it look worse. You can't you can't you can't make it soft which is is possible in the r five. So you know that's like kind of one of the nice things is because it's video first in in some ways. It's like.

01:23:30.78
davemaze
Oh that's cool.

01:23:42.17
Tyler
Look you're just you're always gonna get the best but the best the best out of this and you don't need to worry about memorizing weird settings. So with r five I have to remember like if I'm running it for a long time I need to go in crop mode to get the full sharp image. That's what I'm doing right now. So what I'll do for things like if I'm doing an interview or talking head. It's like well crop. Um, using the crop sensor. It won't overheat and I'll have the perfect sharpness out of the out of the sensor. So I mean that's great, but it's still a compromise in R5 cds don't worry about it.

01:24:09.31
davemaze
Totally and again not to bring back the C seventy but that's the beauty of the C seventy you just you turn it on it always works. It's got all the ports. It's got all the the things. Um, you never have to think about it. So yeah, there's no. There is no record limit on the R Five C Correct they've removed that from bo.

01:24:27.71
Tyler
Yeah, absolutely none you could shoot in 60 frames per second for hours.

01:24:34.55
davemaze
That's cool and then I don't know why they didn't put a full-s size Htmi on it I feel like that's kind of a No- brainer they should have put that on there but it's got the min right.

01:24:40.38
Tyler
Yeah, yeah I mean should be there. Whatever like everyone else Everyone else is doing it. You know I bet if you talk to the engineers. They'll give you their reasons but I definitely wish it was there.

01:24:51.58
davemaze
So yeah, Sony's putting it on everything even there the a seven four has full size now which is interesting that that's kind of more photography camera than the a seven s but they went ahead and through it on there. Um, are they doing the Usb Webcam thing on the. R five c as well as like the.

01:25:13.96
Tyler
I'm going to bet they are I didn't I didn't look at it. But I'm sure it will be there I'm not 100% sure but

01:25:18.28
davemaze
Most most of us use the boxes or whatever because those features are still kind of buggy What else I mean it's It's an R five So you're probably a little bored of it because it's kind of the same. It's just now more reliable.

01:25:31.00
Tyler
Um, yeah, it was hard for me to get really excited about even though it's an excellent camera It's just like oh yeah, we're in the same place same the same images coming out of this It's not going to look different but there are you? You know you can use it in some different ways I heard a lot of people kind of griping about. Specific features of the raw settings. So oh actually 1 thing that' be that's really nice, really quick. You can also shoot in like 6.5 k cropped raw which I would use because it's gonna be a lot smaller. Um, but a lot of people were saying that it's a big issue that if you're shooting in.

01:25:58.48
davemaze
My uncle.

01:26:07.54
Tyler
60 frames per second raw. It's going to not be able to deliver power to the lenses right? That is a problem I mean so you can't use autofocus you can't even change your aperture. Not great, but because the processor is just taking so much juice from the battery. First of all, do you have any idea.

01:26:15.38
davemaze
Oh wow.

01:26:20.84
davemaze
Interesting.

01:26:25.41
Tyler
How much space 60 frames per second raw takes up like how many C Fast Express cards do you have like what level of production is this because if you have a budget for shooting multiple scenes at sixty P Raw like you.

01:26:39.14
davemaze
Okay.

01:26:40.96
Tyler
This isn't a problem for you anymore. You can put a manual you should have a cinema lens on there because you're spending so much money and you you should have a focus puller using ah a wireless system like and it can be worked around still like you. You can still like preset the aperture in a different mode and then jump into sixty and now you're shooting with it or you can preset.

01:26:44.94
davemaze
Sure yeah.

01:26:58.40
davemaze
Sure.

01:26:59.59
Tyler
The focus or change lines I mean it's just like it's not It's not a very common use case the the files are enormous like they're so big that I do like you know I don't shoot raw on my r five at all like ever because it's just so impractical. To be only getting wet I get like 20 minutes out of a 2 56 card and that's on the light compression I mean come on what like how how much am I really going to do with that and it can't well sorry and it doesn't properly support c log 2 you can in resolve extract c log two out of it. But it's not.

01:27:18.62
davemaze
E.

01:27:28.17
davemaze
Ah, it's obnoxious I I don't I don't like cutting you off but I did have a great conversation with Brandon Washington I don't know if you're familiar with him great creator out in Texas and.

01:27:33.88
Tyler
It's not properly supported because the R five's not meant to to use it. So.

01:27:43.10
Tyler
Um, yeah.

01:27:47.34
davemaze
He's fully in the red system. He got the V raptor. He's on the komodo and that's one of the things that he said I know that's one of the things that he said is like I just spent the money and just made the switch because Red Raw is so good. It just works so well in final cut you get all the raw features and.

01:27:49.71
Tyler
Very jealous.

01:28:05.28
davemaze
That's one of the things that we are arguing about is like you go to any other raw system and the files are massive. The support is all over the place. The cannon especially cannons raw is just a mess you have to like bring it in and change it to CLog 2 and this and that and like I'm so jealous of red I guess they just have a ton of patents.

01:28:16.37
Tyler
Um, yeah.

01:28:24.28
Tyler
Yeah, they invented a lot of this. Yeah.

01:28:24.95
davemaze
And I think that's the issue so you know when you get into the red world with the komodo and now of course the v raptor like Brandon I don't know if you listen to the interview but like he basically says all my issues with the komodo are completely solved with the v raptor. It's like the best camera I've ever used.

01:28:42.77
Tyler
Um, yeah.

01:28:44.61
davemaze
Full frame like it's amazing. So but we're talking about a $25000 camera you know so it's a different different bug.

01:28:49.81
Tyler
Sure which I mean the price I think that but the price of the view raptor is actually pretty amazing like it's come down and the quality has gone up so that's that's great I've never been so close to considering a red like I I don't think it'll be many more years before I have at least ah read my arsenal but um, the. Thing about the thing about the raw right? Okay, there's 2 big things red yeah red has the best raw. Ah, first of all, it's got better support than anything else because second place best comes from blackm magicic the be raw is amazing like the the amount of data they fit in a very compressed file is incredible, especially that 12 bit raw. Coming from the new ursa camera I mean it's like the the files are so small for how much is being saved in there and there's all the flexibility you'd want problem is it is only supported in resolve so that red wins on that one then when it comes to canon the cannon has the worst of them I mean the files are huge.

01:29:39.19
davemaze
Yeah.

01:29:49.50
Tyler
And then the support in final cut. You have no flexibility with the edit like all of the goodness about raw is sort of gone. You're basically just this. It'd be the same as working with like a pro res 4 4 4 how many four I say for triple quad quad four file file yeah be like yeah, it's like working with a 12 bit file.

01:29:54.33
davemaze
And here. 4 yeah 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 yeah there's four fours

01:30:08.64
Tyler
Um, but it doesn't feel like working through raw file because you don't have like a white balance setting. You don't have iso Independence. You don't have an exposure adjustment and those perform very differently and I did a lot of tests with this on the C two hundred when you're editing them in resolve and you have those raw controls. It is nothing. It is not similar. To be in final cut and just like move the yellow in the color wheels to to adjust white balance or to just move the mid-tone slider to adjust exposure the results from Raw adjustments and resolve are ah completely different and.

01:30:31.99
davemaze
Yeah.

01:30:45.53
Tyler
Completely better that that is the only appropriate way to be using Cannon Raw Otherwise you're you're really just gathering a lot of data and not using any of the quality so in until there's you know widerpread proper raw support for for Cannon I mean I'm just.

01:31:02.40
davemaze
Is it ever going to happen the c 200's been out for years and they still haven't implemented anything. So.

01:31:03.22
Tyler
I don't even think about shooting in it most the time. No I yeah I I have no idea I really can't understand it I mean the only thing I can think of is maybe it's like Apple putting pressure on cannon to adopt pro res raw. Like they you know they don't want to have too much. They want they want can I just I just killed one of my batteries. Yeah.

01:31:23.56
davemaze
Oh you lost battery speaking of speaking of battery life on the r 5 compared to the thar.

01:31:32.87
Tyler
I'll just finish the idea. Um, but I at least feel like yeah Apple would like cann to feel the pressure of being a third class citizen so that you know they realize like look until you support pro rez raw you're never gonna be as good I don't know if that's. Going out behind the scenes but it feels that way and I can change the battery real quick if you want unless you don't want to edit this.

01:31:50.78
davemaze
I don't know I think. No, no, it's fine if we can just leave it here the why it's cool. We're we're coming up to the end here anyways. So um, you know all that being said, it makes more and more sense. Why marquez has been on red for so long because it really is the best image quality you can get for a quick turnaround because. Red does work well in final cut and that's his primary editing software. There's plenty of other tech reviews that shoot on red it's definitely not a practical solution for most people doing Youtube content. But if you want like the highest quality and you want to use the benefits of raw red really is still the only option in it. Always has been I go all the way back to the original red one and the red epic and the red scarlet and I have a lot of experience with all those older the mx sensor and stuff like that and even that long ago those systems were wonderful and even in the old final cut I was able to somehow. Figure it out with the red one original and it's almost like because I grew up in the filmmaking world as an editor and shooter in the red ecosystem I was like oh cool now Blackmagic is doing it and now all these other companies are doing it I kind of expected it to be similar. Ah even all these years later nothing has come close to red. Implementation and and you know ease of use and compression their compression is so efficient. You can shoot eight k raw on a 128 gig card and get away with it.

01:33:17.20
Tyler
Um, yeah, yes. Yeah that's the other detail like that is significant I think easily overrated when people are just looking at considering the specs is that you can really compress those red files like if you said it on the most compressed setting. It's still looking better than like a. You know the 10 bit files coming out of c seven you so have more flexibility you don't need to shoot at the highest settings at all so and know you but whereas on the canon. Even if you show it shoot at lowest quality. You're still getting bigger files than higher quality red images. So.

01:33:57.36
davemaze
Yeah, well, we'll have to see how this C 70 Raw light performs I'm sure it'll be pretty great and but it's still you're still dealing with all the issues we're talking about here. But um I think I'm with you on the C seventy discussion now that I've discussed. The R Five C and the C seventy it does make sense like just buy the C seventy as your your video tool and then have whatever other photography tool you want to use whether it's the original ROrRFive. You know R Six R Six is great too. Um, you know.

01:34:30.60
Tyler
Yeah, yeah, I've I've never been this satisfied I've never been disatisfied with the cameras I have ever like I've always had this like hoping for something else some in some projects I do still want to read I'm like ah you know I I would love for the colors to just be.

01:34:33.32
davemaze
Just having those dedicated tools for that.

01:34:49.98
Tyler
Perfect, not that they'd suddenly be perfect, but like there's there's there's always this ah you can just jump to colors looking as good as they possibly can with either a red or Alexa and any other camera band brand including canon which I love their colors. There is always a little bit of like well I got to make I got a.

01:35:09.25
davemaze
Yeah.

01:35:09.63
Tyler
It into something nice and and red is just instantly there I mean the fact that with cannon for example that like I had to make luts for myself to find a transform that I liked for CLog two because all the default luts look pretty bad like what canon manufacturers looks bad that shouldn't be the case.

01:35:26.19
davemaze
Yeah, so.

01:35:28.22
Tyler
Whereas with red you never question it like yeah use the red transforms. They're amazing. So.

01:35:30.89
davemaze
Yeah, and they and they constantly update them and you can take red one footage shot ten years ago apply the new color transform and now it all of a sudden looks better like it's kind of crazy. It really is well Tyler. Thank you so much for coming on the show and nerding out with me. Um.

01:35:38.55
Tyler
Yes.

01:35:49.70
Tyler
My pleasure.

01:35:50.67
davemaze
It's just a good excuse to talk about the things that we think about continuously and we'll continue to talk about on Twitter with each other I'm sure. So thank you for coming on.

01:35:58.97
Tyler
Well I appreciate I had a lot to get off my chest. So.

01:36:02.16
davemaze
Awesome! will talk. Ah, how do I close this up. Well yeah I guess that's it. Let's go play some wordle have you played today.

01:36:11.87
Tyler
Not today. So don't spoil it.

01:36:15.71
davemaze
I haven't either So let's go do a word all together sounds good. Alright man talk to you later? Okay, there you go.