Candy Coated YouTube Content with Rene Ritchie

Note: Golden Hour transcripts have been generated with automated software and may contain errors.  Timecode also isn't accurate.

00:00.00
davemaze
Cool Renee. Thank you so much for coming on the show again I think last time I had you on it was like right before covid became really serious. So a lot has changed man. A lot has changed to say the least.

00:02.50
Rene
Thank you for having me toys a blast.

00:10.83
Rene
Yeah, yeah.

00:17.55
davemaze
Um, one of the things that I love about you Renee is just you I love Renee Richitchie and I've been a fan I was telling my wife today shes like who are you interviewing tonight I'm like Renee she she was like oh haven't you talked to him before I'm like yeah and I'm totally a fanboy like I've literally been listening to your voice in my eardrums for probably 10 years

00:30.20
Rene
Ah.

00:36.69
davemaze
Um, on mac break weekly. So again every time I have an opportunity to talk to you I just have to fan boy a little bit because I've just been such a fan for so long. Um, but 1 of the things that I really wanted to do for this.

00:37.80
Rene
That's very kind.

00:43.37
Rene
Ah, thank you so much.

00:51.38
davemaze
Conversation is talk about something that I don't hear you talk about on podcasts very often and that is Youtube you talk about it a lot on Twitter which is really fun to see like your exploration with Youtube and that's what I love about Twitter it's almost like Twitter is like really the community.

00:57.80
Rene
Okay.

01:10.75
Rene
Yeah.

01:11.36
davemaze
For youtubers because Youtube doesn't really have a text-based way to communicate with other youtubers. So I wish Twitter and Youtube would get along a little bit better, but it's almost like if you're a youtuber you have to also be on Twitter so um, anyways I just wanted to kind of hear.

01:17.18
Rene
Yeah, yeah.

01:28.52
davemaze
What's going on with your channel. It's been exploding over the last ever since we talked. Um, you know I think last we talked you were still kind of just getting in the swing of things and and being on your own. How's it been? How's it been treating. You being a a full-time creator on the internet.

01:37.57
Rene
Um, yeah.

01:45.98
Rene
It's ah it's been a real roller coaster like like you mentioned I quit my old big media job in March of 2020 and I gave them a month's notice because I thought there'd be an Apple event in March that didn't want to leave them. You know, empty handed and but.

01:52.45
davemaze
Yeah.

01:58.32
davemaze
Ah.

02:02.00
Rene
Then by the time that that happened the whole world closed like literally my city went on lockdown and I didn't I was out of a job and I didn't know what was going to happen or what I could do but because we were on lockdown and I had nothing else to do I couldn't see another human being for like we literally weren't allowed having visitors I just.

02:05.86
davemaze
Yeah.

02:20.81
Rene
Drove everything I could into making videos and learning about Youtube like basically researching Youtube the way I'd been researching apple for that decade.

02:23.80
davemaze
Yeah, and you sure have been nailing it recently you you surpassed 300000 subscribers which is a huge milestone congratulations and you continue to just.

02:38.10
Rene
Thank you.

02:42.78
davemaze
Crush it and the in the thumbnail game the title game and recently you know some of the conversations that I've been seeing you having on. Ah, on Twitter you're talking about how do we take this niche which is you know tech reviews and kind of figure out how to blend that with what's going on in pop culture Youtube. When you look at the top graders on the platform like Logan Paul Mr. beast like how can we learn from them even within our tech niche. What are some of your thoughts on on that kind of conversation of what's currently trending on Youtube which is very extravagant, almost clickbaity topics and titles. And blending that with with tech news and making it authentic and not just total cringe.

03:25.51
Rene
Yeah, well I mean but like that's that's really like a bigger than Youtube thing and I was lucky that I had some experience with that because that was the case on blogs. It was a case on Tv it was a case like even back in the day when before Nielsen ratings were digital. You would get a little book to fill out and everybody. Everybody would write down that what they wanted was Pbs and yet what everybody was watching was like the tmz stuff like they put the tabloids at the checkout counter for a reason. Um, and to this day I still get people saying why don't why are you making leak videos nobody wants to see that we want to watch the deep dives.

03:54.90
davemaze
That's true.

04:01.88
Rene
But yet every metric tells me that the leak videos do 10 times. The views of what the people tell me they want because like Youtube shows you what they actually click on so it's it's really been figuring that out like and the way I phrase it is I want to make educational videos I want to share like why things work the way they work.

04:05.70
davemaze
Ah, yeah, um.

04:21.76
Rene
But in order to exist not just on Youtube but yes on Youtube but just in popular culture. You have to put a candy wrapper around all of that stuff.

04:29.64
davemaze
It's true and I was definitely playing around with it when I was at indie mogul and um I don't know if I was doing that when we talked last I might have mentioned it in passing because I was ah was talking to them. But yeah I was trying to play around with gamifying.

04:38.17
Rene
Um, yeah.

04:45.44
davemaze
That concept don't know if you saw the video I did with Armando and I justine kind of trying to come up with some sort of way to have a game show within our niche and unfortunately the views on that video did not perform like I was hoping but I think I gave up too soon and.

04:46.76
Rene
Yeah.

05:02.72
davemaze
I am actually I don't know if you saw my tweet I am freelance like literally today I just I quit my job. Um I'm still working with my cousins who I've been doing video with that's how I have the CSeventy that's how I have this maxed out in 1 max they werere kind enough to purchase it and.

05:03.69
Rene
Um, yep, yes congratulations.

05:13.20
Rene
Yeah, nice.

05:20.80
davemaze
Essentially loan it to me as I'm doing freelance but obviously using it for their projects but getting back into Youtube and I know it's it's it's a challenge because a lot of like you said people who comment are like we don't want this but then the numbers tell a different story and.

05:33.54
Rene
Yet.

05:36.50
davemaze
I Think people just take the tech and gear niche kind of a little too seriously sometimes I don't know I don't I don't know. Ah.

05:40.84
Rene
Yeah, no I mean that totally could be true I just think people want to be entertained and if you can inform them while you're entertaining them I think that's better than if you can if you just leave them empty at the end and like that's why I'm happy like Youtube is paying so much attention not to satisfaction. It's like they evolved first. It was just click through.

05:59.49
davemaze
M.

05:59.84
Rene
So Everybody Click baited then it was watch times. Everybody just made the longest thing possible but now they care about how people feel after the videos and they've got Surveys and they've got much more evolved metrics to determine that and I think that's great because it gets people to sort of. Ah, not just make a video but think about designing the experience of that video.

06:19.57
davemaze
Absolutely um I mean over the last year and a half the platform has changed a lot since we talked and you know that's one of the main things that I'm noticing too and haid and hilly or Smith Logan Paul's Editor has a wonderful channel and he always I think is really kind of on the cutting edge of.

06:32.47
Rene
Yeah.

06:39.10
davemaze
Of that and pushing for more story and we're even seeing creators like Mr Beast and others starting to kind of experiment with you know, getting a little deeper and kind of pulling on those those heartstrings. How do? How do you do that with tech how have you been experimenting with. With that concept with tech.

06:56.50
Rene
Yeah I think you always at the end of the day you have to tell a story and maybe you don't have to but I like but I think it's always better if you can tell a story if you can give people something to relate to something to attach to because. Like in some market specs are just everything you sit there and you rattle off a spec sheet and that's fine. That's all people really care about. But I think you know the the technology that we have now is fairly mature. There are a few interesting things on the horizon but they're still built on the things that we have now and I think sort of like the the the gold rush of.

07:23.17
davemaze
Yeah.

07:28.11
Rene
Every new smartphone being a miracle is past us and every new computer being a miracle tablets like all of that stuff. It's become mainstream and so the challenge is the tech doesn't just speak for itself anymore you have to amplify its voice.

07:34.21
davemaze
Yeah.

07:40.70
davemaze
Yeah, one of a tech a Twitter thread that we were a part of was Chris Howe was asking a question about should I post on the weekends and I kind of mentioned like oh look at your heat map and then you chimed in and and had a great point that it's it's also. Kind of want to look at things that are trending or newsy. But then also blending that in with evergreen content. Can you elaborate on kind of the evergreen idea and I've seen you doing this on your channel and I think it's a huge win because you may not get those massive viral hits of when the Iphone is brand new and you're gonna do a. Ah, deep dive on the the new iphone 14 um, but those views can kind of over time continue to develop have you experimented with some evergreen content.

08:24.32
Rene
Yeah I think like 1 of the lessons I had to learn early on and it's funny because my background before I did media was in marketing for for Enterprise Data Analytics for big data stuff and I knew this but I forgot it and that is data doesn't really tell you anything like some people look at it and they say the data is telling me this. But that's. That's what you're choosing to see in the data the data by itself is just numbers and maybe the data means like if it's if you see the performance as low. Maybe you haven't done enough to get enough people of that audience to like it to engage with it. Maybe you've done too much and it's not what your audience wants. Maybe it's offseason and it was bad timing like there's so much about it. But you have to just you can't look at the numbers and use it to justify whatever you feel like and that was a hard lesson for me to learn. But through learning that I sort of got through the superficiality and the most important thing I ever learned on the platform and I think this goes back to something. Todd Bepree said he's the director of discovery at Google and he's spoken at vidsummit and he's done some creator us creator channel videos and that's just like if take the word algorithm and replace it with the word audience. Don't make videos for an algorithm. The algorithm's job is literally to follow the audience.

09:34.74
davemaze
Mm.

09:36.91
Rene
And don't assume the algorithm's job is to find viewers for your video The algorithm's job is to find videos for their viewers and it sounds like a dumb difference like ah or difference without a distinction but it it really changed like everything for me and to your point about this now when I have a question.

09:45.34
davemaze
Um, yeah.

09:53.15
Rene
And don't just look at the numbers and if they're down feel bad or if they're up feel good I mean like it's hard not to feel good if they're up but it's really it's really important not to feel bad if they're down and if I see something like it says this video needs to go up tomorrow at nine thirty that's when most of my audience is active I can look at the video and say. This is breaking news. It's midnight but it's breaking news and every minute I wait. It's gonna be losing views. So I'm gonna put it up now or I can say this is evergreen and it's gonna be getting views for the next twelve months so I can easily wait ti tomorrow at nine thirty and give it the best initial boost it can get.

10:11.58
davemaze
Yeah, yeah, exactly.

10:28.20
Rene
Because my audience is mostly coming online on Youtube then.

10:29.83
davemaze
Yeah I think ah, again, you can compare it to all sorts of different channels out there and you know Mr. Beast is at the the highest of the highs in that way like he kind of just posts a video whenever he's done and it's because the video will be entertaining forever and there's not necessarily a timely. Nature to it. It's just an evergreen piece of content that makes a huge splash when you first post it. But then somebody you know 5 years from now can discover it. Um, yeah and I think sometimes we overlook the fact that Youtube is an international website and we are.

10:54.63
Rene
And markquesll just upload at nine thirty at night because he's marquez. You know.

11:05.56
davemaze
International creators at the end of the day. Obviously we are regionally you know focused depending on what country you're in, you probably have a majority in that country. But I know when I was doing gear stuff I think our number two country was in India so people were watching it. You know? yeah.

11:19.48
Rene
Yeah, yeah, it's mine right now? Yeah yeah.

11:24.15
davemaze
Oh really? yeah I would I would imagine I mean there's so it's such ah a huge market in India and a lot of people overlook that. So.

11:31.58
Rene
Yeah, and it's interesting because like um, you could start to use this stuff to really help you wrap your right or your mind about things like right after the Apple fall events my channel hit a real slump like already last year views were down half by what the previous year was and that was mostly true for all tech channels. Like 2020 was a real outlier because a lot of people were home and the consumption levels for Youtube went up really really high. It took a while for the ad rates and everything to to follow. But last year my views were down but my cpms and rpms people aren't familiar with that. That's just how much money you get from adsense works way up and I had to sort of like start taking those numbers apart.

11:55.25
davemaze
Yeah.

12:10.14
Rene
But then everything went down over the holidays and I went to. We have somebody at standard the agency that I'm with who does just analytics full time and Dave whiscus who runs the agency's very good at that and I watched a bunch of those creator videos again and I realized my audience hasn't gone anywhere. They've just. Bought all their Christmas stuff already. They've got their new macbooks. They've got their new iphones. They're kind of satiated and it's not that they've left or they're not interested. It's just they're not at a fever pitch. They're not clicking instantly anymore and that I had to be more patient. So if I used to get a spike in the in the first day and then it would drop now it took like three days to get the spike but it would take like.

12:27.25
davemaze
Ah, yeah.

12:34.46
davemaze
M.

12:46.38
Rene
Three days to drop again and if I was just patient I would end up getting you know a similar amount of views. It was just taking a week two weeks to get them instead of a day two days to get them and that just removed a lot of stress again because I understood what was happening.

12:59.45
davemaze
Yeah, it's crazy and I just want to say I just have utmost respect and ah you know appreciation for you because I know you you do a lot of these shoots by yourself I would imagine I think you do it all by yourself is that true you write shoot edit.

13:12.90
Rene
Yeah, yeah, especially because again we were locked down so I had no no choice.

13:18.54
davemaze
Yeah, um, so yeah I mean now like have you have you ever worked with a shooter or or an editor have you considered hiring editing teams or anything like that or.

13:27.31
Rene
I have back when I was at mobile nations we had somebody else shoot for us Mark Wim who actually works with um with team pixel now and he was shooting a lot of the videos and editing them as well and I was just basically on-air talent and I've had occasionally other people help me with it.

13:34.89
davemaze
Okay, okay.

13:41.00
davemaze
Yeah, yeah.

13:45.53
Rene
I should get an editor everybody literally any time I mean Hayden's told me marquez told me da told me I like just get an editor but ah the way like I don't have anything else really that much to do right now. But also um when I do breaking stuff. I don't have anybody local so I would have to send that footage out I would have to wait for it to edit I have to go back and forth and right now I can put it together. Edit it and post it within a few hours and that's just a huge advantage when it comes to like quick trendy new topical footage for me.

14:01.55
davemaze
Um, yeah, yeah, um, yeah. Yeah, 100% um I guess you know you can always look to marquez as kind of the ultimate right? like he does have the ability to kind of be timely I guess because he does get such great access to but with the team. It's kind of yeah so here's what I'm doing Connor who used to work for me. He moved back to and by the way I'm in Nashville now now if you knew that I I got out it I've moved out of California. So yeah, I'm back home where I'm from in Nashville Tennessee have you ever eaten southern food like.

14:38.53
Rene
Well no I didn't.

14:47.54
Rene
I have yes, probably not the quality that you're used to. But I have yeah yeah.

14:49.40
davemaze
Fried chicken biscuits you know, hot chicken barbecue of course. Yeah, oh my gosh. Yeah hot chicken is kind of our new the nashville hot chicken craze. It's pretty awesome if you ever come out. You got to have some but Connor is going to be moving in into my home.

15:01.70
Rene
For sure.

15:07.29
Rene
Well.

15:08.57
davemaze
For a period of months and and I'm letting him live with me temporarily and in return he's gonna edit for me, you know? So ah, that's kind of how I'm gonna start from scratch here because I'm I'm going in pretty much cold I've got a channel with like 6000 subs I'm just starting.

15:15.86
Rene
Oh nice.

15:26.68
davemaze
You know, starting over. Basically so that's the only way I could think of it is like if if my editor lives in my house then we can get stuff done at 10 at 10 p m but I don't know I totally get that. What's what's your workflow because I I love that type of editing the kind of.

15:34.10
Rene
Yeah.

15:43.99
davemaze
Maybe that's why gear reviewers do what they do like I do get like an adrenaline rush from the fact that like I have this product. It needs to be edited right away and the sooner I get it out the more views I get so let's just go make it happen. Um.

15:46.61
Rene
Yeah.

15:57.88
davemaze
It can also be a little bit of like an addict mentality so you got to be careful right? Burnout it does. Yeah I mean what are your thoughts on that have you had burnout from doing that type of workflow. How do you manage that kind of Rat race.

15:59.76
Rene
Yeah, and it's a hamster wheel quite frankly, like that kind of content has a shelf life.

16:14.36
Rene
So I've been doing it for so long that I'm sort of accelerated it feels like once you get on the highway and you're driving you can maintain it I've gone up and down though like last year after 2 years of lockdown I was kind of just like based and I didn't do like previous year I did like I don't know 5 six seven videos during an event week.

16:32.37
davemaze
Wow.

16:33.62
Rene
And like last year I did like 3 which was still sounds like a lot. It's not a lot for what I usually do and there were people who still did like 8 or 9 or 10 videos but I was just like I've as much as I can put in right now and even like I like you can go into you? Well yeah, but you can go into like Youtube analytics and you can like I tested 2 videos a week three videos a week

16:44.21
davemaze
And that's okay.

16:53.10
Rene
4 videos a week and then you can plot videos published per week by average view per viewer and you can see if if you do more videos do people watch more videos or do you saturate them and they start choosing between videos and mine showed like I could go to 4 videos a week even more and it would go from like watching 1 point 2 to 1 point 3 to 1 point 4 to 1.5 but I just I can't it's not healthy for me to do that many videos. So I said like I could do more but I don't have to do more and I like that I understand it. But then I can make my own choice.

17:14.14
davemaze
Yeah, it's not. 100% yeah I I had an interview with Oscar Alva last week who is the shooter and editor for Jeff Whittakeck and it was a great interview. We talked for four hours I cut it down to an hour but um.

17:33.30
Rene
Wow.

17:37.38
davemaze
He said that he's doing about 60 hours of work a week they do 4 podcasts 2 main barbershop videos and then two vlogs a month and it's at that level too and I'm like dude that is such a young man's game like I'm you know 31 but I I don't have.

17:41.26
Rene
Well.

17:47.30
Rene
Yeah.

17:57.26
Rene
I know.

17:57.26
davemaze
That capacity anymore to to hustle like that I don't know. Ah, but you know it's just different stages I have you know kids and stuff like that that I like I don't care to work because I want to spend time with my children you know so it's everybody's in a different stage. Yeah, exactly exactly.

18:04.65
Rene
Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely, you're never going to wish you'd spent less time with them when you get older.

18:16.96
davemaze
Um, okay so the one of the main reasons that I was reminded to have you on is because the ah the other day you did post a tweet that just like I really resonate with you kind of talked about already the candy coding concept but the tweet was I perhaps not unsurprisingly amount. Oh a perhaps not unsurprising amount of time is spent figuring out.

18:26.96
Rene
Yeah.

18:36.64
davemaze
How to take the educational videos I make and wrap them in a more mainstream Youtube friendly candy coding so people will actually find them clickworthy enough to take a chance on then over deliververing of course and we we already touched on this. But what are some like real practical um examples of that for you and.

18:46.80
Rene
Yeah.

18:55.33
davemaze
Things that you've learned if you're willing to share your secrets with other tech creators who may be listening to this podcast or other people in ah in a similar niche that can kind of just listen to what you've learned because it is hard because at the end of the day you're making a review about a product like canon one Dc your review.

18:55.75
Rene
Um, yeah, yeah for sure.

19:14.50
davemaze
Like you could just title it canon one Dc review because that is what it is but we have to learn to come up with better more clickable titles and put it in a more candycoded package like you said.

19:24.14
Rene
Yeah, and it can also vary like you like um, there's I'm I'm I a marketing background so I'm going to use a bunch of really terrible marketing cliches in this but like there's a lifecycle for everything and when you post a video immediately that's going to hit your subscribers first. Especially. Subscribers who are highly engaged which is the ones ones that have the bell set to always and have notifications on and you can have a thumbnail in the title that you know is going to appeal to them the most so that you get a lot of initial acceleration and then you're going to have 1 or 2 wo days of it being just pushed out ah not to like general Youtube yet but to the concentricically larger.

19:48.85
davemaze
M.

20:01.60
Rene
Nearest neighbor audiences and there might be a slight subtle tweak and it might involve like because they know you you want your face in the thumbnail so that they'll know it's your video or your logo in the thumbnail so they know it's your video. It's like something that really represents you so from a sea of different thumbnails. They choose yours. And I got to back up just for a second because like there's a lot of people who say oh Youtube doesn't show my videos and again it's like not Youtube's job to show your videos that you have to you have to work for that and you have to imagine that whenever one of your videos goes out. It's gonna be like in somebody's scroll or on somebody's homep page and they have to choose you.

20:18.57
davemaze
Sure.

20:37.96
Rene
Over like Jimmy escaping like from being buried alive or ah, you know marquez doing maybe the exact same video that you just did and so your initial audience needs to resonate with you. But then maybe over time for that review. It's going to become evergreen. It's going to get more search traffic than browse traffic.

20:39.71
davemaze
Sure.

20:56.88
Rene
And then having just a really clear picture like a gerald undone style gear picture and a very like bla Blah Blah reviewed is the better title because that's what people who are doing like ah purchase decisions are going to resonate with so like it's like a living breathing thing if you choose it to be like some people don't care they publish and and let it go.

21:13.68
davemaze
Sure.

21:16.78
Rene
But like you you can manage that stuff so for me like the packaging initially especially is like what is gonna um and I forget who said that like everything that I'm saying I'm just stealing from way smarter people like it's things that Haden has said or things that Jimmy has said or things that Linus have said and it's it's got to be that. Thumbnail that stops people in their tracks like if they're scrolling on on mobile or they're scanning on the desktop your thumbnail has to stop them in their tracks because when people say that you know Youtube never showed my thumbnail they did. It was just next to Jimmy's thumbnail and they chose Jimmy's so you got to like outcompete him which is hard and then the.

21:49.46
davemaze
Yeah, yeah.

21:55.52
Rene
Title has to like live rent free in their brain until they click it like it has to be so enticing to them that they are compelled to click on it and then you have to reward that immediately. That's another Hayden Jimmy you know sort of thing. It's like you click that video somebody is being thrown off that island.

21:57.64
davemaze
Oh yeah.

22:14.12
Rene
You know you don't have 5 minutes to get to that. Don't explain what you're doing show what you're doing and then maybe you earn the consideration to get into the deeper explanations but people have such limited time. You can't get more attention the way you can get more money like that's a finite resource. You're competing against other youtubers in your category.

22:21.94
davemaze
Yeah.

22:33.36
Rene
Other categories on Youtube other platforms like Twitter and like highly dopamine like drenched platforms like Twitter and Tiktok and you've got to earn that attention. Yeah yeah.

22:39.88
davemaze
And Tiktok. Yeah don't get me started on Tiktok right? Yeah yeah, exactly I mean so I'm looking at your most played videos on your channel and it's interesting. You had a big hit three weeks ago um with the airpods pro too. How Apple Destroys Bluetooth Killer Title great thumbnail um you've got you know there's like a question mark in your mind with you know you have a logo of the h 2 processor. You know that's in the that's in the airpods and if if you're not familiar with that. It's you know like.

22:59.80
Rene
Yeah, thank you.

23:17.13
davemaze
Probably you know next level version of the airpods and so you've got this question like what is it and you know the face I think that that's really a good example of what you're talking about because that's a video you posted recently and it's it's crushing another one that you posted you know fairly recently is. Intel attacks Apple M One mac that hilarious commercial that was just totally cringeworthy. Um, okay, yeah I mean the reaction type stuff is great. A great way to crank out some content.

23:42.40
Rene
That was a uncle Roger inspired video.

23:53.65
davemaze
Um, and you don't have to really script anything you're just you just react. You know how have you been experimenting with different kind of formats because I know traditionally you would you would script it out and read read the teleprompter. What are some kind of different formats that you've been playing around with and are there any that you've actually.

24:05.91
Rene
Yeah.

24:12.49
davemaze
Really started to enjoy that's this different than what you were doing a year ago

24:15.15
Rene
Yeah I mean I think when I when I first started the channel over I wanted I went with what I knew but also what that like had show me was successful and that is like like I re-reviewed the iphone and I re-reviewed the mac and I did like a couple what I would call staples but it feels like there's just so much opportunity in every category. Um, and you see the kind of views that because like in the technique. Yes, like there's some impressive views. But you start talking like never even mind Jimmy like you're pulling 70000000 views per video that's ridiculous, but there are people like sniper wolf pulling tens of millions of views every day with the video like.

24:44.45
davemaze
Yeah.

24:50.10
davemaze
Yeah I know.

24:52.64
Rene
Every day with a video and then there are other people like there's just so many different formats that not all of them like there is no Jimmy of tech videos really, there is no cyper wolf of tech videos. Not really and maybe that format wouldn't work like you can't one of my favorite things is like Jimmy will just say make a banger like that's the best strategy just make a banger.

25:08.49
davemaze
Ah.

25:10.41
Rene
And like he knows how to do that exactly for the kind of video he does. But how do you take that and translate it or you see like Hayden taking like all this slogan Paul footage and turning it into like a very compelling story but like how do you do that with like how does Hayden make a tech video how does Jimmy make a tech video how does.

25:19.70
davemaze
Yeah, sure. Yeah.

25:29.30
Rene
Hyper wolf make and I try to think about those sorts of things and then I do experiment like I did a bunch of reaction videos. Um I've done I try to do some evergreen like I've tried both reviews comparisons should you buys. What's now versus what's next and I just keep experimenting because like. Um, sometimes people do the same thing and they expect different results but also doing the same thing and expecting the same results on Youtube can be bad because the whole audience and platform is moving at the same time you are so you can get left behind if it's like the same thing over and over again. Like why I respect people like marquez so much he's at the top of his game but he doesn't rest on it like there's some people who've literally made the same video every day for ten or every week for 10 years like literally the same video and he's always pushing always taking it to the next level always doing something new and something fresh. Um, and that's the sort of spirit that I try to do like what can I do.

26:13.52
davemaze
Yes, yeah.

26:24.72
Rene
But I was working on broll I worked on color grading last year ah year before last worked on b-roll last year now I'm trying to do sound design I've just tried to add some animations to it and as all those things make it fun for me.

26:32.24
davemaze
Yeah, was I definitely want to compliment you I've I've I've noticed it's been. It's so good like the quality of your footage looks amazing. Your lighting is so dialed. Obviously your audio is on point. It should be with you know over a decade of audio.

26:40.40
Rene
Oh thank you.

26:51.25
davemaze
Creation with podcasts and stuff. Um, but it's it's awesome and that's that's one of the things you know and Marquez's interview with Colin and Samir. He mentioned they asked him like why by the way if you haven't listened to that interview. It's fantastic and by the way and also other sidebar aren't aren't they crushing it. Um.

26:58.69
Rene
Yeah.

27:08.45
Rene
Um, yes.

27:11.60
davemaze
They have really blown up over the last even just six months Colin and Samir they've they've really dialed it in I love their their channel. Um, but um, anyways, he's basically saying like doing little things that kind of advance your craft a little bit just makes you stand out and also gives you something to work on and just grow and.

27:13.63
Rene
Yeah.

27:30.82
davemaze
At the end of the day. All you can really do is compete with yourself. Youtube is so big and there's so many people in the world and there's there's so many people that aren't even actively watching Youtube yet that will one day so and based on all the the trending news about Tiktok's lack of paying people.

27:33.74
Rene
Yeah.

27:46.86
Rene
Um, yes.

27:49.69
davemaze
Um I think it's again like for me personally that whole kind of story that kind of has been blowing up recently about ticktock essentially not paying their creators what they should reminds me and and kind of gives me confidence like yeah Youtube is the place for for video creators to build a business and so.

28:05.72
Rene
Yeah, yeah, no, that's that's totally true and even like to to your point. Ah, 1 of the presentations at vidcon. It might even have been Todd's again was like Mr Beast everyone thinks he's thisormous creator how much of Youtube do you think actually watches Mr. Beast and it was a tiny tiny percentage just to show how much growth like even his.

28:18.79
davemaze
Yeah, yeah, yeah I mean ida.

28:24.82
Rene
Potential is like because of the vast size of this platform and I really liked what he said sorry go ahead? no.

28:30.60
davemaze
Most of my friend I was just gonna say most of my friends don't know who Mr Beast is like in real life like you know my my cousins especially my parents they like hey who you know it's just just just different niches different people. Yeah.

28:38.26
Rene
And he's getting like absurd amounts of retention on long videos with like average views per viewer that is exponentially bigger than most people and still he's got that much I Loved what he said on Marquez's ah channel when marquez was interviewing him and he's like just make.

28:48.39
davemaze
Yeah.

28:57.22
Rene
Better videos. You know if you just make better videos. The views will come. The subscribers will come the watch time will come like everything every metric that people worry about and try to micromanage and I think sometimes use it as a distraction because making better videos is so hard like sit there with key even though keywords make almost no difference on Youtube.

29:10.98
davemaze
Yes.

29:16.63
Rene
Sit there for a day you know trying to come up with better Keywords when it really is like you have to do everything you can to make better videos. No matter how hard that is and if you're lucky enough to have people like who will roast your videos and they'll tell you like your thumbnails aren't good enough. Your videos aren't good enough. Your titles aren't good enough. And you don't like get put off by it. But you're like you redouble your efforts it fixes. Everything.

29:36.31
davemaze
Um, you know as we're saying all this one little question just pops up in my mind and I ask myself this. Why? Why Renee? Why do you do this? Why are why are you like this? Why are you so passionate about this whole thing I mean you've been a part of this community for so long and. I just want to ask why? what is it about this that gets you up in the morning. Gets you excited.

29:59.74
Rene
Oh I Love I Love being of sort like it know sounds super corny. But I love being of service like if I can make a video that not only makes like my audience the audience that I'm lucky enough to have if it not only makes them deliriously happy. But if it gives them like more information better information if it takes them from a point of. Like confusion or misinformation to like ah I don't know what the right word is for it. But if I if if they are better off after having watching that that is just the best feeling in the world and I want to do that all the time.

30:28.72
davemaze
Um, and oh give me chills man. We love you. We love you so much and I love you like as a fan and we feel that and oh my gosh making me like feel feelings. It's crazy. It's.

30:35.23
Rene
Ah, thank you.

30:41.21
Rene
But you know like you must get this too. It's like you tell someone you make Youtube videos and they look at you like well either they don't understand it or they think it's like you're a supermodel and you're complaining about getting sand in your toes. You know every once in a while like it's just there's like but it's really hard.

30:51.50
davemaze
Ah, yeah, it is and you know the thing that we've all missed these last two years is going to the going to the conferences and going to the events because that's where it's real for all of us to actually meet people who are watching the videos and in real life.

31:00.54
Rene
Yeah.

31:09.20
davemaze
And shake their hands and hear stories and like it's mind blowing when people come up to you and say you know one of your videos meant this to me for this reason or whatever. It's like what I'm just making stuff in my bedroom and I'm like it's so weird. But so impactful and and amazing and.

31:09.58
Rene
Yep.

31:15.62
Rene
Yeah. Yeah.

31:25.22
davemaze
Ah, it's what a blessing that we live in this day and age to be able to do this. There's no gatekeepers. We just create upload and there you go like it's It's really an amazing thing I mean obviously the internet. Ah.

31:36.42
Rene
Yeah, but and it's also like in some ways like a really pure meritocracy like of course algorithms have quirks like no algorithm is perfect but Youtube does like if you think about it if you had a blog back in the day you were really most people were just incentivized because of the way that Google Seo worked just rewrite. Everyone else's story bury the link as much as possible. Get as much time on page as possible with podcasts like this like let's say you go and cover. Ah, the new canon camera launch and Armando goes and covers it and crimson engine goes and covers it and potato jet like if they all had podcasts all you would see is their other episodes.

32:12.62
davemaze
Yeah.

32:14.37
Rene
You wouldn't even know who else had covered it but with Youtube like I'm watching your video and then someone else's videos in the sidebar and you're in their sidebar and it like it raises up everybody and I think that creates a really deep sense of community because we know like at least part of our success is tied in the success of everyone who's doing the kind of stuff that we're doing.

32:19.65
davemaze
Yeah, yeah.

32:29.85
davemaze
Yes, absolutely and I think that actually now that I've talked to a couple of people outside of our niche I think that is a little rare in in our in the entertainment industry and maybe even on Youtube I hope I'm optimistic that that's not the case in other niches. But um I think in our. Community of tech you know reviewers camera nerds I guess because we've always been nerds our whole life. We all like relate to each other finally where we know somebody like being such an Apple fan boy or camera nerd like in real life. You don't meet those people. So if.

32:53.61
Rene
Yes, yes.

33:08.42
davemaze
If somebody's like if I'm waiting for a table at a restaurant and I see somebody like swiping up on their apps to close them I just want to like tap them on the shoulder and be like hey that's not a thing anymore and Phil Schiller said it but ah like I don't want to like and then they look at you like what are you talking about? you know.

33:14.41
Rene
Yeah.

33:24.37
Rene
Yep.

33:28.32
davemaze
I've had that same argument with many people and it's like I'm just going to give up if you want to swipe up and and force quit your app and it doesn't matter anymore. Go for it I wish they would just finally have a clear all button for those people so they can you know feel better about themselves. But.

33:29.56
Rene
Yes, ah.

33:35.17
Rene
Yes.

33:41.85
Rene
Yeah, they don't want him to because it's bad for the system resources but you never know.

33:46.68
davemaze
Ah, ah, um, so how how's been the the camera world for you I don't even know what you're shooting on currently and I definitely want to hear your thoughts on the New R Five C because it's very exciting for some creators out there I'm you know using the C seventy have been a real fan of it I've had it for a year now I've.

34:02.16
Rene
Yeah.

34:06.31
davemaze
Um, very pleased with it. Are you still rocking the c 500 for your stuff. Awesome.

34:08.29
Rene
Yeah, so right now I'm using the c 500 Mark too I love it just because it it really simplified my workflow like right now I used to talk in my very first videos I was talking into my podcast mike like the hail p forty and yeah because that's what I knew but then marquez goes you should really just get this.

34:20.51
davemaze
Yeah.

34:27.59
Rene
Boom microphone. So now I haveennheiser MkH 4 one 6 and that just goes through xlr right into the camera. It's got dual Cf express slots. So I have backup and redundancy and csfre expresses so fast. So fast.

34:30.35
davemaze
Um, yep, but you don't but you don't. But you don't care about that Nice Ah beautiful Sd card slot on the Mac and anymore because you're like I'm not using that Anyways, right.

34:47.94
Rene
No I don't use htmi I don't use like headphone like well that's the thing is like there's different like this is what was funny to me I was at cs one year and I um I was talking to Luia Petrucci who's like a big big gearhead and then Alex Lindsay came over. Who's like used to work at industrial lights and magic. You know at his level of gear nerdery was exponentially more and then one of his friends who still worked industrial lights and magic came over and the stuff that they were talking about was like next next level so they like lights are always and then he'd like marquez with like 2 kinds of robots now.

35:11.23
davemaze
Oh yeah. Ah, next level? Yeah, exactly.

35:26.12
Rene
And but then you have like I forget the guy's name. You've had him on your show who's built basically his own volume set you know with the Htc controllers and the cameras like like there's just it's it's unlimited levels of nerdy and it's so beautiful.

35:31.13
davemaze
Oh yeah.

35:38.60
davemaze
Ah, yeah, exactly there's there's no limit and it keeps getting better and my good friend Jevin dovey is a creator who like he's really been blowing up in the drone kind of world and I think that's an ah interesting niche to be a part of because it's actually advancing year over year but with camera stuff now it really has gotten to a point where and I I think I the reason I was okay to take a break this last year is cause I was feeling a little not bored, but just kind of like okay we've arrived now like all the cameras are good when the a seven s three came out I was kind of like all right. That's it.

36:11.94
Rene
Yes, it's enough.

36:13.39
davemaze
That's the one that has everything on it. Yeah c five hundred is perfect c seventy if the CSeventy had the c 500 sensor in it. It would be perfect. But.

36:21.00
Rene
See but that's the thing with cannon it's like the c five the c Five hundred Mark two is great but it it tops out at five point Nine k then you have the r five which goes to 8 k but it's got that 30 minute record limit on it and it doesn't have c log two. It does have cf express the c seventy doesn't have the record limit.

36:27.94
davemaze
Ah.

36:34.17
davemaze
Yeah.

36:39.37
Rene
But it doesn't have cf express and now the r fo this the yeah it does it. It does yeah, it does have c log too. Yeah, but it's always like and then some of them are micro eight micro htmi and some are full h dmi and they have different batteries like it's just they they and now the the RTheRFive c

36:40.14
davemaze
Ah, and it's got see see log two though. Yeah yeah, and raw. Yeah.

36:55.69
davemaze
Yeah.

36:57.80
Rene
I'm gonna I'm I'm gonna order it because I still have an eosr above me and on some of the unboxings I've hit that time limit not realized it so like not having a time limit will be great and it's light enough that I can put it up there so but it but it's Goingnna have the same kind of can and ideos like I I don't think it's gonna have c log you on it. It's it's gonna be weird.

37:01.92
davemaze
Um, oh wow. Yeah, yeah, sure.

37:13.22
davemaze
I know you now that I'm going back into Youtube I have been kind of like brainstorming what I should get I'm thinking about selling some stuff but I I think my cousins are gonna let me gonna loan me this thing because it's not mine I don't own it but I could. I'm thinking about maybe picking up the fx three I've been seeing a lot of positive reviews on it and I've really enjoyed my time with the sony a 7 s that being said I do love the canon color science I still love a lot of the features of the canon and I've been looking on canon rumors and apparently there's 3.

37:36.86
Rene
Yeah, yes, same.

37:49.37
davemaze
Bodies that are still going to come out this year at the second half of 2022 like kind of another mid-range like r 6 kind of replacement and then even a ah cheaper kind of more vlog centric ah competitor to like the a 7 c for example that that.

37:50.90
Rene
While.

38:05.71
Rene
Yeah.

38:08.29
davemaze
Might be popular with youtubers so I may just wait it out see what's going on this year the r five c definitely looks like the perfect camera for me, but it's a little outside my price range personally. But um.

38:14.91
Rene
Yep. I like the Sony and like Jonathan Morrison was telling me about it and he's so good. Like yeah, like he shoot with ay but like he's used with Sony and I think that's like a good gauge for his talent level and he's gone all in on it but like so I have so much can and glass.

38:22.66
davemaze
Yeah.

38:31.66
davemaze
I know you'd have to sell it all. there's there's 1 interesting I mean it's a little bit of a weird situation but Sony treats their creators so much better than canon like all my friends that shoot Sony they're calling me and they're like.

38:34.60
Rene
You know I've been using I mean shooting with canon for 10 years

38:44.88
Rene
Yeah.

38:51.17
davemaze
Hey by the way Sony called me they they're going to like start working with me and like you know, paying me to do ah sponsored videos and sending me stuff like canon does not seem to care at all about like having communication and and a relationship with the creators that are using it. it's it's absurd

39:00.53
Rene
Yet.

39:05.84
Rene
Like anybody but Peter Mckinnon I think I've I don't think I've seen anybody else really do much of anything with canon. Oh well.

39:09.90
davemaze
Yeah, exactly well Sam I just saw Sam Newton is ah is a and ah ah, a canon guy now he's the guy that did the music videos after I did um ah I'm not bitter. Um, he's better than me so I'm but have to cut this out because that sounds really bad.

39:19.39
Rene
Yeah, yeah.

39:29.27
davemaze
Um, ah ah obviously we could talk for hours about Apple stuff I didn't want this show to be about that because you can listen to to you talk about that on your channel if you're not a subscriber go over to http://youtube.com/reneyritchie watch all the content listen to Mac Break Weekly

39:45.85
Rene
Ah, thank you.

39:47.38
davemaze
Are there other shows that you're on as well podcast I mean you're always like you're on gruber' show sometimes and you you're all over the place. Grouper is amazing. Oh my gosh. He's talk about a natural on the mic and like it's it's yeah.

39:51.17
Rene
Yeah, yeah, that's always fun. it's it's it's a good 3 hours of of podcasting every time it happens. Yeah so smart.

40:06.23
davemaze
He's amazing and you guys kind of are have like a yearly inden review kind of show that I always look forward to so that was a good one. Um, but obviously the big kind of topic of this last year was the Apple silicon transition. Obviously now we've got the the the m one max and the pro and.

40:11.86
Rene
Yep.

40:20.50
Rene
Um, yeah.

40:25.41
davemaze
Um I Want to speak specifically to final cut pro because we both are final cut editors. Um, what what have you like learned about final cut that ah you know you maybe would want to share with somebody that is just getting started or somebody who. Doesn't know anything about it. It. That's a stupid question. Um I'm trying to I I don't know.

40:46.99
Rene
No, it's good. No like they the thing with final cut of me is like I used to I started editing on a video toaster when I was a little kid and then I did and it was great for its time. The video toaster was like babylon five era where was an Amiga.

40:57.67
davemaze
Ah, wait What what is that video. Oh My goodness.

41:05.30
Rene
First was an amiga 2000 it was a card you could put into it and because of the Amiga's unique processor architecture. You could do like video editing on a pc like the really for the first time. Um and it it came with like light wave I think it was called was like a complete 3 d rendering program. It had a built-in switcher. Um, and then after that I went.

41:13.47
davemaze
Yeah.

41:18.88
davemaze
Wow was it was it hard sorry was it hardware. Okay.

41:24.84
Rene
Final cut because amigas it was a hardware card. Yeah, it was ah it was a card that you put in the um backlin computers had card slots you know? Ah, um, but then I start I I got into like classic final cut and then when they made the switch to final cut 10 and they've dropped the ten agains now it's just final cut. But.

41:31.29
davemaze
Ah, not just Sd card slots.

41:40.22
davemaze
I know I I've I always put fcp X and I'm like up I got kill the x.

41:42.86
Rene
Like if I know it's and like I hated final cut pro 10 at first and it was this whole thing like Randy Uboos who ran video at Apple back then went on vacation. He's like this stuff just sucks. It is way too slow I can't do anything with this. We've got to rethink.

41:58.12
davemaze
Um.

42:00.10
Rene
Our entire approach and they did like imovie over again and then they did final cut over again and the magnetic timeline was really offputting. But once I learned to like just put my either my voiceover or my main a-roll in the magnetic timeline and then just cut with the idea that it's gonna like the whole thing is just gonna collapse down.

42:17.95
davemaze
Yep.

42:19.46
Rene
Like my measure for speed isn't like how long something particularly like rendering speeds or all this. It's like time to completed work from ingesting the video to uploading it to Youtube how long does that take and I've never found anything like there's there's things that you can do and after in um, in premiere and in.

42:25.47
davemaze
Um.

42:37.25
davemaze
Premiere resolve.

42:38.59
Rene
Resolve that you cannot do in final cut pro like they have so many features that final cut just doesn't even begin to address but time to completed work is so fast and I was still going to event ah back before the world ended I was going to events and you really like you have you and you have your mac and you have videos you have to get live and the ability to edit those.

42:45.14
davemaze
E.

42:54.32
davemaze
Oh.

42:58.17
Rene
Myself I didn't have like a verge size team and marquez is marquez he would he would just go go back to the hotel room and do it all on his you know the Mac pro that he carried around in his suitcase I yeah I had to get them up like at the event so that speed was really important to me and I just I just learned to be able to very quickly.

43:08.86
davemaze
Ah, yeah.

43:16.84
Rene
Get video done with final cut and now with like the M one max and the M one pro. It's faster like it renders so fast I Sometimes think I forgot to press the button and I just realize it's done like I'll go up and I'll get some coffee I'll come back and I'll think oh I didn't render it like oh no, it's done but also it's so it's like responsive.

43:24.62
davemaze
Yeah, yeah, um.

43:35.29
Rene
Ipad level responsive. So instead of dragging an effect and having a beach ball for a second and then dragging it and having a beach ball like it. It saves all those seconds from every minute which saves me even more time and then previously I would hit a button and it would light up the cpu and I try to like browse the web work on a thumbnail and it would be like just.

43:39.71
davemaze
Yeah.

43:54.60
Rene
So slow but now because it's got rendering engines. That's all just done completely off the cpu cores. So I have like a whole other machine while I'm rendering and that saves me even more time. So it's just like the impact on my workflow is extreme.

43:58.50
davemaze
Yes, yeah well yeah I I used to work with different guys doing a lot of editing you know like a room with a bunch of editors and often they would have 2 computers so that you can hit render and then you just take your your little wheel wheelie chair and just go over to the other one and keep working you know. Um, that's not the case anymore I had a friend who actually had a screen recording of premiere export. It was like a 2 hour export and he would play the video so he could go take a smoke break so when the producers would come in they would look at his screen and just see the the export going.

44:41.52
Rene
That's hilarious.

44:42.56
davemaze
Ah, so that way he could take a little break I Thought that was a funny little filmmaker editor tip but that you can't pull that anymore with M one max and the M one pro. Although maybe I was spoiled in in U or as well because I made the transition to Apple Silicon immediately when the M one came out and I'm.

44:46.27
Rene
That's hilarious.

44:50.60
Rene
Yeah.

44:57.82
Rene
Yeah.

45:02.13
davemaze
I was already very pleased with the timeline especially editing it just everything felt so snappy coming from Intel just scrolling scrubbing your your mouse around and just cutting like just the actual mechanics of editing became so much faster when I went to Apple silicon so buying.

45:17.17
Rene
Yeah.

45:21.43
davemaze
This machine I was like all jazzed about you know, just max it out. Get everything and I got it and I'm like I mean it's it's very fast for sure. But I was already very satisfied and it's not as much of a ah generational leap as going from Intel to silicon in the first place. Um, but the export times.

45:36.90
Rene
Yeah.

45:41.20
davemaze
On this machine are dramatically better on my mac mini I was doing you know these 3 hour long courses. That's what my job was this last year doing these 3 hour long 7 camera with motion graphics courses all shot in 4 k.

45:42.12
Rene
Yeah.

45:53.30
Rene
Wow.

45:58.14
davemaze
And it would take I would literally have to do it at nighttime hit export go to sleep and then it'd be done in the morning like a 5 to 7 hour export I did the same today while I was at work closing up shop today was my last day so I had to export one of them out. It took about an hour

46:04.11
Rene
Yep.

46:16.55
davemaze
For a 3 hour four k course with multiple layers. 1 thing I've noticed and I thought this computer would solve it and you may have seen my little Twitter thread about it. There's something wrong with jpegs on final cut I don't understand what it is.

46:17.18
Rene
That's amazing.

46:32.61
davemaze
I don't know what the hangup is I tried to record my screen with this happening but I posted my findings and other people seemed to agree that they were having a similar situation. This might be a bug that they could fix but I've noticed even on this maxed out m one max you know I've got 4 layers of 4 k.

46:35.12
Rene
Yeah.

46:51.53
davemaze
Playing no problem I throw 3 jpegs on there and I use the blade tool to cut the jpegs all of a sudden I get beach ball and it just pauses for a second and I'm like why is cap. It's just a Jpeg. It's not even and so I don't know there might be something going on in the cruft there I mean.

46:58.22
Rene
Yeah.

47:09.40
davemaze
Software is made by humans and you know it's It's going to be fixed but I don't know he has the waveforms I'm constantly I know the waveforms have been an issue for years though. Um.

47:09.81
Rene
Yeah, it's that and the waveform rendering like it's all this power and the waveform still takes forever render and it's got to be a bug. Yep.

47:24.86
davemaze
And as a Youtube editor and I looked at your timeline today. You posted a tweet of you know finish my a roll ready for b-roll the way you edit is exactly how I edit too I just take my raw like talking head I just hit play and then just blade tool all the way down delete delete you know ripple delete it just starts kind of.

47:34.54
Rene
Yeah.

47:42.72
davemaze
The magnetic timeline works to your advantage and then I expand the audio start doing my J and L cuts you know and whatnot. Um, but that doing that style of editing the fact that you like I have to I constantly am hitting space bar so that my waveforms click in because I'm.

47:43.33
Rene
Yep. Yeah.

47:57.98
Rene
Yep.

48:00.22
davemaze
Kind of not even looking at the video because I know my video is in focus and I'm just sitting in a chair So I'm really only editing waveform I'm just looking for my mistakes and when I when I'm pausing um that is frustrating isn't it. But.

48:01.96
Rene
Yes.

48:11.59
Rene
Yeah I know there's a third party tool that does it. But I really wish Apple would take the logic pro strip silence feature and just add it. The final cut pro so you could press a button and it would autocut wherever there was like ah any like a predetermined length of silence that would be awesome and the 1 thing I learned to do actually the final cut team saw me editing at 1 of the Apple events and they came up and they said.

48:23.16
davemaze
Um, yeah.

48:31.41
Rene
You should put everything in either a multicam or a compound clip and I was like why and they're like well if you want to go and change anything later. You've got to do it on every single cut that you made whereas if you're cutting on a compound clip. You just double click into it make whatever changes you want and those will propagate throughout every cut you've made in that clip and that saved me.

48:33.23
davemaze
M.

48:46.12
davemaze
Um, yeah, ah I'm trying to find the tweet but I 1 thing that I kind of like had an aha about with final cuts pricing in particular.

48:50.41
Rene
So much time I was like look he mad I didn't know about that earlier.

49:02.00
davemaze
Um I tweeted I was like I think I figured out why final cut isn't free because it doesn't really make any sense why Apple would charge money for it. They're not making money off of it and they sell hardware and I realize as like 299 is is cheap for a pro. So it's kind of like oh yeah, okay I'll pay three hundred bucks Adobe's $50 a month. Um, so that's.

49:16.60
Rene
Yeah.

49:21.70
davemaze
Ah, nice little like barrier for like your average Joe who really should be using imovie to not buy. It's like I'm not I'm not paying $300 for the software I movies free so they're saving all this you know there would be endless amounts of technical support if they didn't charge $300 for it.

49:32.14
Rene
Yep.

49:36.32
Rene
Yes.

49:39.76
davemaze
Forget his name but it was one of the guys who actually introduced final cut. He somehow saw my tweet and he responded and he said yep, you're you're exactly right? That's that's why we decided to do that because I'm like I paid $300 for this the day it came out eleven years ago I haven't paid a dime for it ever since.

49:45.00
Rene
Oh nice.

49:56.29
davemaze
That's not true I've spent tens of thousands of dollars on Apple stuff. So ah, um, but I always found that fascinating that you know final cuts only $300 and they don't charge for upgrades. But that's what's so great about it I mean resolve is free though.

49:57.73
Rene
Yeah, ah.

50:08.60
Rene
Yeah, and there's been tons of upgrades over the years like I used the face tracking for the first time in the last video I just dragged ah a PA png g ping gif gi file over my face and it but it might immediately said track I pressed the track button it worked fine. It was great.

50:13.27
davemaze
I haven't even.

50:23.74
davemaze
That's amazing. 1 of my favorite features about it is being able to make custom profiles in custom text so you can download a bunch of plugins. But maybe you don't like the font choice. You know it's not your branding. You can open it up in motion select that font make it whatever you want change the colors and then save it as a preset.

50:26.90
Rene
Yeah.

50:41.52
davemaze
And now whenever you want that lower third or whatever. It's the exact way you want it to be. You don't have to spend all this time shifting it in the inspector. It's it's already pre-made. That's one of my favorite features about it. So what's one of your favorite features.

50:50.96
Rene
Yeah I do that for like yeah well I I do the same thing like I have a basic color grade that just it has like you have to apply the lut manually still. But um I just pull that over and it does the color grade like and it's not perfect I have to adjust it each time but it gets me 90% of the way there.

50:59.21
davemaze
Yeah.

51:06.61
davemaze
Totally.

51:08.59
Rene
And it reconforms it and everything and that kind of stuff is just anything that you can do like that that saves you monotonous work I think is great.

51:13.53
davemaze
Yeah I finally kind of started learning the ate system I got an atem extreme Iso or something and I am using 1 camera but there's like a zoom in shot on the one camera so I bought an hcmi splitter.

51:18.53
Rene
Yes.

51:30.97
davemaze
So I have three cameras 3 camera angles coming in from the same camera and I just go 1 2 3 and then I just you know digitally Zoom on the others and that saved me a ton of time with editing just doing 1 2 3 live edit wallets you know, but meet Kevin is kind of a master of that kind of stuff if you've ever seen this channel. But.

51:34.39
Rene
Nice.

51:43.27
Rene
That's awesome. Um, yeah, yeah, but look how many videos he gets up every day.

51:50.60
davemaze
Um, yeah I don I don't know where I heard this but I think Jevin told me he said that Kevin will post. He posts like 8 videos a day and what he what he'll do is like he'll just post a video if it's not one out of 10 He'll just make another one and post it until he gets one out of 10 and then he stops. Ah, ah.

52:09.40
Rene
That's hilarious. Have you ever seen. Scotty Kilmer's channel. He's a car youtuber but he's hilarious ah used to be on Tv now he does these videos. He does like 3 videos a day they have the worst clickbait titles like you'll say like I'm dying.

52:09.58
davemaze
So ah, but ah, ah, let me look is it just that is that his name. Yes, I've seen him.

52:25.76
Rene
Or like if you buy this, you're stupid. Um, but he just like he cranks out those videos. Yeah.

52:26.53
davemaze
This will yeah this can kill you I just got scammed warning ah of title is literally just warning stop stop buying this cheap crap. Ah I I'm a.

52:38.92
Rene
And I one of the videos shows him shooting and he literally just like picks up a tripod moves at three feet says something picks up the tripod moves it three feet says something.

52:45.89
davemaze
Ah I'm kind of jealous of like the non-tech ah world of Youtube because you can totally get away with like lesser quality in terms of video and audio I feel like for us there is almost like a level of it just has to look a little good for them to kind of like ah. Listen you know what? I mean? Um, but I guess that's not always true. You can kind of push push push and pull that but um.

53:09.90
Rene
Well like on Youtube but it's like the most popular tiktoks and reels and shorts are all like shot with the iphone like with the worst background in the store like it's shaky and like it has it has that painful authenticity authenticity.

53:15.38
davemaze
I Know yeah.

53:22.41
davemaze
Ah, absolutely I do you think final cut will ever come on the ipad. what's what's Renee's thoughts on that because I would love to see it. But then again the Apple Silicon has solved my issue I liked using luafusion on ipads because it was so snappy and amazing because it was using Apple silicon.

53:36.75
Rene
Yep.

53:40.70
davemaze
Well now we actually have Apple Silicon on a Mac I don't know if I care anymore. But do you think it'll ever happen.

53:44.25
Rene
Yeah I think the question is like for the same thing with Xcode logic and final cut is what does that mean like does it mean a standalone version that has an interface optimized for the ipad doesn't mean something that works.

53:55.61
davemaze
Yeah.

53:59.78
Rene
Together with the desktop where like you're editing on your mac and you pick it up and you go to the sofa and you do some things and you come back and you put it down and you're back in universal control or sidecar mode and my guess is based on like what we heard about xcode is that Apple's going to eventually make these things in some way cloud-based like right now you have they just announced xcode cloud and my guess is. Be Xcode for the mac and x code for the ipad and xcode for the cloud will be like the glue between them and it'll be the same thing like you'll have final cut on the mac you'll have it on the ipad and you'll have final cut cloud and you'll have like instances of your projects and there'll be some things that don't make sense on the ipad like the ipad doesn't.

54:23.28
davemaze
Oh.

54:37.99
Rene
Doesn't swap to disk the way Mac Os does it just like yotes things from memory when you run out which is not great for final cut. They'd have to do a bunch of changes to the way Ios works and I don't know if they're going to do that. But it might be a great way to pick things up and do a bunch of editing that just isn't easy on a mac and then it's all sync to the cloud.

54:38.80
davemaze
Yeah. Yeah, That's true.

54:56.53
Rene
You know, like um, like like like Adobe does or like frame I o does and like I think just copying it is a lost opportunity like using it to make the state of the art better would be really cool.

55:05.51
davemaze
Yeah, and I I played around with loomiffusion quite a bit and the the ergonomics of touching a screen while editing is not comfortable for a long periods of time. So I still think an actual computer with a mousing keyboard is the the correct way to edit in my opinion. But.

55:23.45
Rene
Um, well I would just love like I would love snapping like you like snapping in Keynote where if you bring things like up close to other you get like the snap line because I just trying to align titles and things and final cut is still. So yeah.

55:25.25
davemaze
Some kid who's like what's a computer wouldn't agree with me. Ah. Um, yeah, yes, oh my gosh I've found I found a hack I don't know if you have ever considered this Keynote has the best snapping ever. So.

55:42.79
Rene
Yes.

55:45.40
davemaze
Sometimes I'll create graphics and Keynote and just export as a p and G over to final cut if I need text to be perfectly centered but you're right? It's so obnoxious that I can't just like put a piece of text down and just drag it in it. It snaps like photoshop or whatever I mean it's ridiculous. Yeah I don't understand.

56:00.70
Rene
Yep, they have the technology.

56:05.29
davemaze
Don't understand all right if you could choose 1 thing to change about Youtube Renee Richie what would it be? what? what's the thing that that you're that you're wanting that one feature or anything if you could change.

56:14.97
Rene
I mean there's a couple like if there's like 2 I guess there's I have 2 different answers to that like my beyond Renee answer would be I just want them to do a better job with education. So that people aren't anxious about algorithms but like empowered by audience I think like there's just way too much creator anxiety and I think a lot of like.

56:29.39
davemaze
Mm.

56:32.52
Rene
Mainstream publications feed on that by trying to say like creators are burned out and creat like I think that it's just it's a really bad vibe. So if they did a better job explaining how all this stuff works I think it'd be great like just feature set I would love to be able to and I'm going to say like any feature can be abused and the minute I say these features people go to say. Well, it'll be abused in this way and that's true, but like any feature can be abused I would love the ability to have multiple thumbnails like for example, a thumbnail that if somebody has watched 2 or 3 of my videos previously. They get it like with me and my face on it maybe or if they haven't maybe they get the generic product shot instead and for Youtube not just to do a b testing. But.

56:55.90
davemaze
Yes.

57:03.27
davemaze
Yeah.

57:08.24
Rene
To figure out which thumbnail is better for which different audience that they're showing it to I think that would be really good and the ability to suggest other videos of mine that this is similar to to jump start the matching process like because sometimes it's not always apparent which videos like there might be an audience for this video but it's not apparent. It takes them a long time to find it.

57:10.18
davemaze
Yeah.

57:27.14
Rene
And I could say no no, no, this video is very similar to this one I think that would be a great way to Jumptart it and then I would really love for them to extricate shorts like they kind of just drop them in there and like make shorts their own tab. The way posts are have them their own analytics The way live streams are like it just like.

57:34.98
davemaze
Yes, yeah.

57:44.16
Rene
It move that stuff into its proper drawer.

57:44.51
davemaze
At least the at least it doesn't seem to affect your actual channel health. It just looks a little messy because you go to the video tab and you see your mainline videos. But then right next to it is a vertical video with a terrible thumbnail and it's like what you know what's going on here. Yeah, and.

57:51.53
Rene
Yes.

57:58.98
Rene
And it pollutes your analytics because it's not separate there yet.

58:04.41
davemaze
I mean what you've experimented with it. What have you found with you know your your niche doing vertical tiktok style videos I mean that's obviously where a lot of the eyeballs have gone over the last year or 2 Tiktok's numbers just continue to grow through the roof and I think it's important as creators to to see it as a. You know, strategic place to to place your videos not necessarily to build a a giant empire empire and make a living but it is a place to get exposure right now. What are some of your thoughts on Tiktok in the tech world.

58:36.77
Rene
I like it I think Tiktok has the same problem if you want to call it a problem that Twitter has um and I'm not going to get all Hank Green about it. But I think like a lot of people used to have blogs and then Twitter kind of swallowed a lot of that. But now all the content is owned by Twitter all the revenue goes to Twitter and they're trying to do some sort of creator. Fun stuff.

58:50.65
davemaze
E.

58:55.58
Rene
But it's nowhere like what Youtube does where you feel like you're actually getting part of the revenue that you're generating we've mostly just in in exchange for a larger audience. We've given over almost everything to Twitter and that Tiktok feels like that it feels like in like in order to get this massive amount of attention. We've taken like the videos that were hours on Youtube that we were getting revenue share for on Youtube and now we're giving that content over to Tiktok where the attachment like Twitter does not go to the the artist doesn't go to the creator. It goes to the platform because you're always just like 1 swipe 1 timeline away from somebody else. And it's great for growing those platforms. Not so great for growing creators and I think the smart play is exactly what you said and that is using it for exposure and using it to side hustle people over to what your main jam is um but I think like long term it's it's it has not proven itself to be good for creators.

59:38.41
davemaze
Yeah, ah.

59:45.78
davemaze
Yeah I mean I guess you could sort of compare it to vine and if you if you look at the the history of vine. It did not succeed that it did go away I don't know if Tiktok will go away. It seems to have a lot of roots in in society right now it may be a little bit of a fad for. This generation but snapchat kind of felt like a fad when that came out and it's still holding on I don't use it I really never did. But I do have friends who are a little younger than me that that's actually 1 of their primary ways of communicating. Um, so Tiktok may be like that. It's the. This generation of kids you know thing that they'll continue to use as they get older. But I don't know it's it's fascinating I think it's important to be strategic with it and not count on that as a generation of revenue just a way to you know, basically put your name out there and maybe get some views and ah. I guess poured them over to Youtube but I don't think the transfer rate is that high either. So I don't know it.

01:00:46.39
Rene
Yeah, well the thing for me that concerns me like you and I just rattled off like during the course of this podcast like maybe 30 different creators that most people would recognize I would be hard pressed to name like very many Tiktok creators at all and it's nothing to do with them. It's just like the attachment doesn't go to them. It goes to Tiktok like do you really know a lot about.

01:00:57.74
davemaze
Yeah, yeah.

01:01:05.71
Rene
Guy who yells at traffic in every tick talk is like no you see him you laugh and you move on or you know a person who says inappropriate jokes and then it's person who's doing like weird food thing and it's like it's like a minute you know, maybe it's 30 seconds and you're onto the next thing and it it just it doesn't attach the same way.

01:01:08.71
davemaze
Yeah, yeah.

01:01:15.44
davemaze
Yeah.

01:01:22.13
davemaze
And I've I mean I've heard um that Charlie demilio for example, like she was handpicked by Tiktok as like this is gonna be our mascot and that's like kind of creepy and weird that like and she doesn't you know she's young and like it's kind of.

01:01:37.80
Rene
Yeah, yeah, yeah, that was hard to watch.

01:01:39.62
davemaze
Almost ruin their life in a way if you watch the documentary and stuff which I haven't but I watched the call and samir kind of breakdown of it and yeah like it's interesting and that I don't know if it worked. It's not healthy either for these children to be in that type of environment. But anyways going on a little tangent with that. But um.

01:01:56.62
Rene
No worries.

01:01:59.52
davemaze
I just I kind of I want to say one of my favorite things is like I don't know a couple months ago for some reason I think it was something to do with like legal battles or something but like like um Andy Andy and um Alex Lindsay would like get into these little arguments and it's like a very friendly argument but you're always there like you'd never really seem to chime in. Um I mean you do but like I just find it so entertaining that you guys all get along so well I'm referring to mac break weekly. Um, it's become you know.

01:02:21.40
Rene
Yep, yeah.

01:02:37.55
davemaze
Essentially the 4 of you but you often have other guests on and unfortunately a lot of guests have come and gone who who we love who get hired by ah Apple often. But um I just find it so funny that like they have their little dynamic Leo is always trying to just move things forward and you know you're kind of the.

01:02:43.31
Rene
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:02:54.69
Rene
Yep.

01:02:57.25
davemaze
The active you know Youtuber who's maybe getting things earlier so you you can speak to that and Alex is always you know talking about his UDZFiles or whatever that nobody knows about I'm like Alex I don't know what you're talking about and I don't really care. Yeah, you see.

01:03:06.64
Rene
Yes, augmented reality files. Yep usd. Yep.

01:03:15.90
davemaze
He's like when this takes off it's going to change the world like I'll take your word for it. Alex so ah, ah, um I just want I guess that's not even a question. It's just a comment I love the dynamic how has that you know been for you being a part of of that kind of you know.

01:03:18.28
Rene
Yeah. No, it's a lot of fun.

01:03:32.38
davemaze
Channel and not channel but show it's you've really cementted yourself into the history of that show and it's pretty amazing I think we've talked about on the previous podcast but as a longtime listener of Mac break you know I just want to hear your take on on being a part of that show.

01:03:46.90
Rene
No, it's just so much fun and it's such an institution like I used to listen to that show I used to commute to work for like you know Montreal so snow so it would be like between an hour and 3 hours each way sometimes and I would just listen to Mac Break Weekly and I listened to them when when the original iphone was being announced. Um, and it's just it was like a thrill to be added to the show. It was ah it was beyond a thrill when I got to host it for the first time it was like felt like I was sitting in my dad's chair. It was just a really weird feeling. Um, and then it's just's just great to be part of that because it's it has such a different demographic than my Youtube like it's people who are very much into like the.

01:04:14.37
davemaze
Yeah, ah.

01:04:26.50
Rene
Gonna say old school but it's just like that tech Tv g 4 vibe you know podcasting and it's it's like how macw worldld had a very different vibe than like vidcon or something and I love to reach all these different audiences and hear what they have to say and what they care about because a lot of times I think like on tech Twitter and even in tech Youtube.

01:04:28.33
davemaze
Yeah.

01:04:34.70
davemaze
Um, yeah.

01:04:45.65
Rene
What what people think is the majority opinion is like the 5 percenter club like like it's an extreme extreme minority that just assumes that their views are majority views but they really aren't and when you see things like like Leo's radio show or like some of the people talking on mac break weekly. You get a sense of like how really different their world is um, like I always remember like oh I was at wwc once and someone was complaining about an issue with the Bluetooth keyboard on the Apple Tv and and the engineer said literally everybody who uses that feature is here at the conference and it'll be fixed by the time you get home.

01:05:03.78
davemaze
Yeah.

01:05:21.41
Rene
And the guy's like what he's like yes there is a single digit number of people who use that feature but to them it was the entire world because all their friends were complaining about it too. Yeah no I think that was pretty mainstream. Yeah.

01:05:23.72
davemaze
A single digit and of yeah yeah, exact like us with the with waveforms and final cut I Guess well and I feel like every final cut user would benefit. In fact, it's actually strange that that hasn't been fixed yet. Ah.

01:05:39.76
Rene
Yes, that concur.

01:05:42.80
davemaze
Um, cool well Renee thank you so much for your time I don't know how on earth you even had time to even be on this but I really appreciate it and I will continue to listen to you every week on mac break I'll continue to be watching your videos watching your career. We love you and like like what you're saying.

01:05:48.70
Rene
Of course. Thank you.

01:06:01.92
davemaze
You know what? you're doing the why behind what you're doing. You are absolutely achieving that you bring so much joy and and happiness to other people. You love other people, you're kind like I Just you know I Just want to say it out loud so that you hear like and it's hopefully s sinks in that like we appreciate you and I appreciate you and.

01:06:10.76
Rene
Ah, thank you.

01:06:18.35
Rene
Thank you.

01:06:21.52
davemaze
Um, you know the fact that I can have you on my show is just a real honor. So thank you.

01:06:25.98
Rene
I'm Canadian Dave if I smile. Um, if I if I blush I'm gonna melt so I'm sorry.

01:06:28.71
davemaze
Ah, ah, ah, you're just gonna apologize all the way down. So ah, all right Renee. Thank you so much for coming on and yeah, we'll talk soon. All right there you go all right? Zencastr don't fail.

01:06:35.93
Rene
Thank you! Awesome! Thank you.